Supra Manual : "A future classic " ????

[gixxersixxerman]

My belief and I hope I’m wrong but in 30 years when we are where the MKIV is now ICE vehicles won’t matter, it’ll be EV and autonomous driving Getting rid of the majority of traffic. And to force it that way a gallon of gas with be 20-30$ and ice vehicles only allowed in non-autonomous zones. That’s where I think the future is going to be. So a manual or automatic debate will be irrelevant at that point.

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[Loco38SUP]

My belief and I hope I’m wrong but in 30 years when we are where the MKIV is now ICE vehicles won’t matter, it’ll be EV and autonomous driving Getting rid of the majority of traffic. And to force it that way a gallon of gas with be 20-30$ and ice vehicles only allowed in non-autonomous zones. That’s where I think the future is going to be. So a manual or automatic debate will be irrelevant at that point.

It will be the wars between ICE and AI Autonomous vehicles at that point.

-RJM

 

[tharris4995]

In a world where people have a choice that would never happen. People vote with their dollar. However the illusion of choice and its existence in the future is up for anyone to guess.

 

[FLtrackdays]

Just had to help my 22YO daughter buy a cheap car (hers got written off, not her fault and she's a Uni student). Her written off car was an auto as was her first car. When we were considering a replacement car she told me she wanted a manual. She's not even licenced to drive a manual but she just wanted a manual. So we ended up with a Corolla and last Thursday she fronted up to the registry and took her manual driving test in it after 6 days of instruction/practice and passed without an issue. The amazing bit is in 5 weeks time she'll be licenced to drive a manual car without any test involved anyway. Confidence goes a long way.
Some kids still "get it"
Phil

My daughter did the same. Wanted a manual. She had been around the track with me, her ma & racing buddies. First car we helped her out. She paid for ½ and we paid ½. She chose a shitty Fiat 500 turbo. Decent speed and she was happy. Until it started falling apart. I hear most Fiats do. Anyway, she went and traded it for a manual Ford Fiesta and kept that one ever since. Loves it! Especially because it was her choice, not mine, and she’s paying for it (and it’s almost paid off).
*(sorry for the proud papa moment, who doesn’t love their kids and reminiscing)*

Damn they grow up fast! However, still driving a manual ?

 

[MoTeC_R]

If the Supra becomes a future classic it won’t matter what transmission is inside, that will be a personal preference of the owner just like it is today. It’s not like anyone ever says wow that cars a classic if it has a manual transmission inside. A cars a classic or it isn’t, simple as that. Transmission is not what determines that so Doug’s take is wack on that.

 

[Jmanlevan]

My daughter did the same. Wanted a manual. She had been around the track with me, her ma & racing buddies. First car we helped her out. She paid for ½ and we paid ½. She chose a shitty Fiat 500 turbo. Decent speed and she was happy. Until it started falling apart. I hear most Fiats do. Anyway, she went and traded it for a manual Ford Fiesta and kept that one ever since. Loves it! Especially because it was her choice, not mine, and she’s paying for it (and it’s almost paid off).
*(sorry for the proud papa moment, who doesn’t love their kids and reminiscing)*

Damn they grow up fast! However, still driving a manual ?

Don't apologize for being proud! That is awesome Mark! So cool seeing a teenager enthusiastic about manuals in this day and age, especially a female teenager! As a male, I always found it so attractive when a woman would come into my life and she knew how to drive a manual with confidence and capability! Good for you for sharing your passion with your kiddo! Also, that S2K is sweet!

 

[s219]

There are plenty of other examples of MT versus AT when it comes to desirability for collectors down the road, and 9 times out of 10 the manual cars are way ahead.

A great example is the first gen Acura NSX, which was a brilliant car in it's day and still drives wonderfully all these years later. MT examples bring in big bucks and are highly sought after by collectors. The AT cars largely get ignored and sell for far less. The demand just isn't there.

Another great example are the front engine Ferraris (599, etc) that are highly sought after with traditional shift manuals, but much less desirable with the automated gearbox. In fact, there is a strong aftermarket for manual conversions for these cars, and it boosts collector value quite a bit. The automated gearbox is far superior from a performance standpoint but collectors want a traditional manual.

I am having a hard time coming up with an example of a collector car where the automatic was more desirable. Anybody have some examples?

What may matter is production numbers. Does anyone have unit sales numbers for Supra MT versus AT since both were available?

 

[BMWAF]

There are plenty of other examples of MT versus AT when it comes to desirability for collectors down the road, and 9 times out of 10 the manual cars are way ahead.

A great example is the first gen Acura NSX, which was a brilliant car in it's day and still drives wonderfully all these years later. MT examples bring in big bucks and are highly sought after by collectors. The AT cars largely get ignored and sell for far less. The demand just isn't there.

Another great example are the front engine Ferraris (599, etc) that are highly sought after with traditional shift manuals, but much less desirable with the automated gearbox. In fact, there is a strong aftermarket for manual conversions for these cars, and it boosts collector value quite a bit. The automated gearbox is far superior from a performance standpoint but collectors want a traditional manual.

I am having a hard time coming up with an example of a collector car where the automatic was more desirable. Anybody have some examples?

What may matter is production numbers. Does anyone have unit sales numbers for Supra MT versus AT since both were available?

Unfortunately, because our platform first came out as an automatic and such a high number of users on here own them, the facts presented above will likely continue to be drowned out by good old confirmation bias.

Perhaps somewhat ironically, all these automatic collectors are going to have a rude awakening when they discover the sheer number of automatics produced only reduces the value of such examples.. and likely just boosts the demand for the manual variants further.

None of this is guaranteed of course, but as your thinking shows, it would be very unusual for the automatics to hold value as much as their manual counterparts.

 

[MoTeC_R]

Unfortunately, because our platform first came out as an automatic and such a high number of users on here own them, the facts presented above will likely continue to be drowned out by good old confirmation bias.

Perhaps somewhat ironically, all these automatic collectors are going to have a rude awakening when they discover the sheer number of automatics produced only reduces the value of such examples.. and likely just boosts the demand for the manual variants further.

None of this is guaranteed of course, but as your thinking shows, it would be very unusual for the automatics to hold value as much as their manual counterparts.

A total of ~25k units (2020-2025) of all A90 Supras - 50% of all 2023-2025 are manuals (Toyota confirmed that). Still that doesn’t matter. Why is the A80 desired? Not for stock form but for the modding potential and speed. What do you think most will want in a Supra in say 5-10 years? A want a manual that you can only put 500wtq on after modifying the clutch or an auto that they can put 650wtq on out of the box? Very few say man I really want that stock A80 - nope they want to mod it and make it fast for straight line speed. I’m not saying either is the better choice. I’m saying it doesn’t matter we all know how much bang for the buck the Supra is and with that in mind it’s very likely to be a future classic. Whether the new adopters a few years down the road want to push max 450-500wtq and row the gears or max 650wtq out of the box on the auto with quicker shifts will be up to the individuals at that time. It won’t matter manual or auto. Half will be clapped out or in the damaged Supra registry with biggest wangs on them and the rest (~12500) will be the future classics…

 

[trev_rs]

The only thing for certain is that if any of you still own these when you are retired and hard parking at cars and coffee you'll still be having this same argument.

 

[lucky phil]

A total of ~25k units (2020-2025) of all A90 Supras - 50% of all 2023-2025 are manuals (Toyota confirmed that). Still that doesn’t matter. Why is the A80 desired? Not for stock form but for the modding potential and speed. What do you think most will want in a Supra in say 5-10 years? A want a manual that you can only put 500wtq on after modifying the clutch or an auto that they can put 650wtq on out of the box? Very few say man I really want that stock A80 - nope they want to mod it and make it fast for straight line speed. I’m not saying either is the better choice. I’m saying it doesn’t matter we all know how much bang for the buck the Supra is and with that in mind it’s very likely to be a future classic. Whether the new adopters a few years down the road want to push max 450-500wtq and row the gears or max 650wtq out of the box on the auto with quicker shifts will be up to the individuals at that time. It won’t matter manual or auto. Half will be clapped out or in the damaged Supra registry with biggest wangs on them and the rest (~12500) will be the future classics…

I think I can safely say that, 1 future collectors will not want cars that have been modified and fucked about with and 2 they won't be even slightly interested in modifying them to make more/big torque/HP. The most valuable and sought after cars are the ones that haven't been messed about with in my experience even if you buy a SH one now. I mean why would you risk a SH modded car? A good stock car is a known quantity as opposed to a modified car.
I'm surprised on 25k units have been built, where did that figure come from? The Focus RS Mk3 I had was a "limited edition" end of production "special" and Ford bult 34,000 of them over 19 months.

 

[MoTeC_R]

The only thing for certain is that if any of you still own these when you are retired and hard parking at cars and coffee you'll still be having this same argument.

I don’t have an argument nor a transmission bias. I like both and both have the pros and cons if you will. That’s why it will be up to those that can’t get a Supra now but want one and get their Supra in 5-10+ years from now, just as it’s up to the owners today and what their wants are with their Supra..

 

[MoTeC_R]

I think I can safely say that, 1 future collectors will not want cars that have been modified and fucked about with and 2 they won't be even slightly interested in modifying them to make more/big torque/HP. The most valuable and sought after cars are the ones that haven't been messed about with in my experience even if you buy a SH one now. I mean why would you risk a SH modded car? A good stock car is a known quantity as opposed to a modified car.

I’m not discussing the rare elite collectors that will pay absurd amounts to sit their stock Supra in their living room next to the piano, nor the value of said vehicles.

However lets imagine an auto is 60k in 10 years and a Manual is 75k just for kicks and giggles. It doesn’t mean the Supra isn’t a classic just because a manual is a few thousand more. They are both classic and desired people may just have to pay a little more if their desire is a manual.

The major of A80s are heavily modified and both clean and modified examples go for good money if they aren’t clapped out examples, again just like I said it depends on what that specific buyer is looking for doesn’t mean a modified Supra isn’t valuable too or less desirable that’s all in the eye of each buyer.

Also remember the market will be dictated by the majority of future buyers not the few of the sit your stock Supra with 5k miles next to the baby grand piano buyers.

 

[BMWAF]

Why is the A80 desired? Not for stock form but for the modding potential and speed. What do you think most will want in a Supra in say 5-10 years?

LMFAO. Not really.

The majority of MKIVs I see are not pushing astronomical numbers. That's everyone's dream but most are in a pretty sorry state. Sure, there's a few YouTubers pushing large numbers but the majority of MKIVs are just regular cars with some minor mods. Just like the MKVs. Not everyone is pushing to be the next 1000HP straight line hero.. I think that's a uniquely US thing perhaps.

I'll go further and say the MKIV is iconic for its mythical potential, its JDM 90s credentials and also its silver screen fame. We have none of that.. in fact we have the opposite, lol.

Our cars are more likely to be bought as solid examples of the last manual sports cars. That's just my take, not that it matters much.

Time will tell.

 

[FLtrackdays]

I think I can safely say that, 1 future collectors will not want cars that have been modified and fucked about with and 2 they won't be even slightly interested in modifying them to make more/big torque/HP. The most valuable and sought after cars are the ones that haven't been messed about with in my experience even if you buy a SH one now. I mean why would you risk a SH modded car? A good stock car is a known quantity as opposed to a modified car.
I'm surprised on 25k units have been built, where did that figure come from? The Focus RS Mk3 I had was a "limited edition" end of production "special" and Ford bult 34,000 of them over 19 months.

Same thing with a good buddy of mine. He buys the most authentic & clean for collector cars that retain their value. And even when not considering extremes (or restoration projects), a clean & well maintained car will always be the main deciding factor for the masses shopping a used car.

There is a cut off period when automatics stopped sucking for non collector cars. I agree with others that I wouldn’t want an older power sapping automatic classic muscle car, S2K or MX5. But If shopping for a more recent Porsche, BMW or similar modern car, those are far removed from the “automatic“ of old.

But that’s what I would do ofc. Gimme a modern F1 style paddle shifting Ferrari, Porsche or manual you name it badass ride that was well maintained for a good price ?. Different strokes for different folks.

LMFAO. Not really.

The majority of MKIVs I see are not pushing astronomical numbers. That's everyone's dream but most are in a pretty sorry state. Sure, there's a few YouTubers pushing large numbers but the majority of MKIVs are just regular cars with some minor mods. Just like the MKVs. Not everyone is pushing to be the next 1000HP straight line hero.. I think that's a uniquely US thing perhaps.

That’s actually a dying thing over here as well. All the tracks that have closed in the US have been drag strips. They just aren’t pulling over the fans like they used to. It’s definitely a unique niche.

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