Toyota "Preparing" Hotter Supra GRMN, Says Chief Engineer

justbake

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It has been a little while and I think it would be a good time to re address comments by BMW insider Lemetier here and here about the GRMN model.

It’s not the first and certainly not the last time. I stopped doing interviews for major publications 10 years ago but they still grab bits here and there.

I’m fairly confident the lineup will start with:

SZ - 4cyl B48B20 265hp
SZ-R - 4cyl B48B20 265hp (possibly more) with “Track Package” as standard.
RZ - 6cyl B58B30 (either with 355hp or 380hp)

VIN from the Goodwood car comes back as the latter.

Later on:

GRMN with something else under the hood and in the drivetrain.
So to expand more, here’s the G29 Z4 (ZF Transmission Technical Application Guide)

The production dates go back to engineering freeze and the ones with no end date so far are the final production transmissions.

With the J29, there are only 2 models listed (equivalent to the Z4 30i and RoW M40i). That leaves a 3rd that

A: Doesn’t have a ZF transmission
B: BMW is not the applicant for the Emissions Certificate (the older SPX data list - German for Shared Emissions Index)


As to the GT86 reference, thats something for another discussion.

Judging by this B58 and ZF transmissions are out of the question.

Also because Toyota is the applicant for Emissions Certificate, at minimum there will be more than just software changes to an existing BMW motor unlike 3.0 models today (which are emissions certified by BMW.)

Transmission possibilities:
- The Getrag/Magna 6MTI550 (6mt slated for the upcoming M3) is still in the question.
- The transaxle from what BMW is testing here is a possibility now considering we know CLAR supports this type of layout.
- BMW M DCT is possible but unlikely considering it be being phased out.
- Something different altogether

Engine possibilities:
- Toyota/Gazoo modified B58.
- Toyota/Gazoo modified S58 is possible but ///M allowing Toyota to take and improve on their new motor is unlikely in my opinion.
- Something other than 3 liters. I think the US '3.0' trim is a hint that it won't be 3 liters because having multiple 3 liter trims is redundant branding IMO.
- Something different altogether.
 
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justbake

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It has been a little while and I think it would be a good time to re address comments by BMW insider Lemetier here and here about the GRMN model.






Judging by this B58 and ZF transmissions are out of the question.

Also because Toyota is the applicant for Emissions Certificate, at minimum there will be more than just software changes to an existing BMW motor unlike 3.0 models today (which are emissions certified by BMW.)

Transmission possibilities:
- The Getrag/Magna 6MTI550 (6mt slated for the upcoming M3) is still in the question.
- The transaxle from what BMW is testing here is a possibility now considering we know CLAR supports this type of layout.
- BMW M DCT is possible but unlikely considering it be being phased out.
- Something different altogether

Engine possibilities:
- Toyota/Gazoo modified B58.
- Toyota/Gazoo modified S58 is possible but ///M allowing Toyota to take and improve on their new motor is unlikely in my opinion.
- Something other than 3 liters. I think the US '3.0' trim is a hint that it won't be 3 liters because having multiple 3 liter trims is redundant branding IMO.
- Something different altogether.
@lemetier since no one here enjoys the fine art of speculating, is there anything you can share regarding the GRMN model?
 
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supraboi

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https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterl...to-power-toyotas-final-supra/?sh=250f8534491f

Tweaked BMW M3 Engine To Power Toyota’s Final Supra

As the sports car world reluctantly turns to electrification and engine downsizing, cars like the 6-cylinder turbocharged Toyota Supra are making their last big stand before they disappear from showrooms forever.

Of course, when we talk about the Supra, we are in essence referring to a deal that was struck back in 2012 between BMW and Toyota to collaborate on sports cars and EV technology. The most high profile project to come out of this partnership was undoubtedly the joint development of the BMW Z4 and the Toyota Supra, in which both cars employed BMW’s powertrain and chassis.

The current GR Supra might pack a 382-hp 3.0-liter and a $51,000 price tag, but according to Japan’s biggest selling car magazine, Best Car, the ultimate, and final limited edition Supra will boost output by over 130-hp thanks to the fitment of a BMW M3 Competition powerplant and more than double the standard Supra’s sticker price.

Slated for a 2023 launch, the Supra GRMN — short for Gazoo Racing Meister of Nurburgring — will employ a tweaked version of the same engine powering the BMW M3 and M4. From what we’re hearing, the M3/M4 Competition’s twin-turbo straight-6 generates 503-hp and 479 lb-ft of torque, while the upcoming Supra GRMN will pump out 513-hp and 485 lb-ft of torque.

For the record, Team Gazoo was founded in 2007 as Toyota’s racing arm in Europe and Japan, but morphed into Gazoo Racing in 2009. It operates Toyota’s racing efforts in the World Rally Championships and the World Endurance Championship and will also supply special bespoke limited edition versions of models like the Supra, Yaris and others.

The Supra in the image you see here is a race-prepped version of the production Supra featuring heavily modified aero parts and a huge rear wing. While the GRMN version will not be as hardcore, we can expect it to receive a generous helping of streamlined body parts, cooling ducts, bigger brakes and grippier rubber. The current rear-drive GR Supra employs 4-piston Brembo brakes on the front. With the massive power upgrade on the GRMN model, those stoppers will reportedly be upgraded to 6-piston Brembos and get wider, low profile tires on lighter rims.

And married to that powerhouse will be a BMW-sourced 7-speed dual-clutch transmission, replacing the 8-speed automatic fitted to the current Supra. That’s in contrast to the M3 and M4 of course, which will both have 6-speed manuals. This is the first time that the Supra will use such a gearbox, and according to reports, there was some pushback inside BMW as to whether to make the dual-clutch available to Toyota given the fact that the 7-speed is being phased out.

Only 200 Supra GRMN versions will be built at a cost expected to hover around $120,000. As we progress further into the 2020s, and more electric motors are employed to help power the next generation of sports cars, this high powered 513-hp Supra GRMN is expected to be the last Supra to feature a purely gasoline engine. The end of an era.
 

KahnBB6

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I’d like to see this confirmed elsewhere as well but these specs are nothing we didn’t already know would be a possibility.

$120k MSRP is a bit higher than expected but not by too much. It’s a shame they’re sticking to their 200 unit number. I wonder if that’s 200 GRMN’s just for Japan, 200 for all markets or 200 allocations for each country in which the Supra is sold.
 
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KahnBB6

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Damn so they’re not renewing the Supra for 3 more years??
Unless something has changed, the Supra MKV should be discontinued after MY2026 (in the actual year 2025).

What is both irksome and troubling is that the Forbes article implies that the Supra model in general won’t continue into an A100 generation. I won’t believe that until it’s official but if it ever became the case then it would be extremely short sighted and a waste.

So long as the Supra never becomes an SUV (as happened with the Eclipse and Mustang) I don’t see why, after this generation, it can’t roll with some form of electrification and still be engineered to be true to its spirit of what it is as a sportscar and sports GT.

They only just brought it back after all.
 

Islindur

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so pretty much all those people waiting for a 2022 or 2023 to get a manual... they are not getting it so might as well buy now....
Ppl waiting for a manual on A90 remind me about those who waited for a stock turbo in 86/BRZ year after year :D
Altho manual in A90 is 100x more likely, esp with 400Z on the horizon.
 

solidsamir

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Damn so they’re not renewing the Supra for 3 more years??
It says 2023 probably for 2024 model year. That’s for the final special edition, doesn’t say we won’t get more regular Supra’s. But a regular m3 is a lot cheaper than this special edition so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

JustaCarguy.

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The fck? I wouldn't trust forbes with car news. But who knows, I did see someone comment about how "supposedly" Toyota is killing off the mkv because of poor sales. They were more than likely talking crap though. ?‍♂
 

21Supra

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The fck? I wouldn't trust forbes with car news. But who knows, I did see someone comment about how "supposedly" Toyota is killing off the mkv because of poor sales. They were more than likely talking crap though. ?‍♂
probably some dude just pulling stuff out of his ass. Historically 2 seat sports cars have never been a “huge” seller so I can’t imagine Toyota was expecting huge numbers. Besides the cars seem to go in and out of dealerships for the most part so it kinda seems like they are selling just about what they are making without too much trouble. Doubt they were expecting RAV4 or Corolla type sales numbers.

that would be something though wouldn’t it? Stop making a car after 2-3 years in production. Guess that would help us with resale value though? Maybe?
 

XtremeMaC

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probably some dude just pulling stuff out of his ass. Historically 2 seat sports cars have never been a “huge” seller so I can’t imagine Toyota was expecting huge numbers. Besides the cars seem to go in and out of dealerships for the most part so it kinda seems like they are selling just about what they are making without too much trouble. Doubt they were expecting RAV4 or Corolla type sales numbers.

that would be something though wouldn’t it? Stop making a car after 2-3 years in production. Guess that would help us with resale value though? Maybe?
As is, it was difficult for Tada to get funding for the life of the program. with 2-3 it's impossible to amortize all R&D and tooling costs.. wishful thinking...
Even Lexus's ISF isn't a high seller, and well LFA :p so, they throw some money around for flagship..
Sponsored

 
 




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