New (Unconfirmed) Details and Specifications of US-Spec MKV Supra:

Would you consider a single trim, 350hp, 3300lbs/1500kg luxury A90 Supra at $60k+?


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Levi

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Have to agree with @HKz and @Noble713 .

The GT86 is not slow, because for those that is was slow, they made it fast. The light enthusiast will get a Golf GTI or Golf R with cosmetic mods.

Out of the box, the Z4/Supra is maybe not such a great bargain car (yet to be determined), but at least, unlike the previous generations that could not be cheaply modified, this one will. There is actually no sports car (not sporty car) that has a smooth I6. The Supra will be faster than any BMW ever, the chassis can handle the power. Sure there is a lot of (understandable) overreaction. But it is not like the alternative are really that good either. The 718 has 4 cylinders, it is not aimed at the hardcore enthusiast, it is heavy compared to an MR2. The Mustang is big and heavy. The 911 is too expensive, and has the engine in the wrong place. AMG GT is ugly, F Type is heavy, etc...

Enthusiasts like the M2 and M4. For performance, the Supra will only be better. More performance, higher price.
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Modal170

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Have to agree with @HKz and @Noble713 .

The GT86 is not slow, because for those that is was slow, they made it fast. The light enthusiast will get a Golf GTI or Golf R with cosmetic mods.

Out of the box, the Z4/Supra is maybe not such a great bargain car (yet to be determined), but at least, unlike the previous generations that could not be cheaply modified, this one will. There is actually no sports car (not sporty car) that has a smooth I6. The Supra will be faster than any BMW ever, the chassis can handle the power. Sure there is a lot of (understandable) overreaction. But it is not like the alternative are really that good either. The 718 has 4 cylinders, it is not aimed at the hardcore enthusiast, it is heavy compared to an MR2. The Mustang is big and heavy. The 911 is too expensive, and has the engine in the wrong place. AMG GT is ugly, F Type is heavy, etc...

Enthusiasts like the M2 and M4. For performance, the Supra will only be better. More performance, higher price.
What about corvette?
 

PerformanceSound

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What exactly do you want to do that will require another $15-$20K? Most of the Supras that are going for $60K right now are flawless! I totally understand the "not new" part and Toyota did screw us by discontinuing every damn part for the MKIV, but unless you are looking to turn your car into a 1000whp car, I don't think you'll be spending that much money.
I am building a 1K HP 2JZ as we speak, and $15k adds up very quickly on engine mods. My current build is already at $14k and that doesn't include everything. Forget the performance side of things, the OEM replacement parts alone (panels, brackets, covers, etc...) would bring the cost of used Supra to insane price ranges. The manual transmission gauge cluster used on eBay right now goes for $1500!!!...USED!!! The way I want it, is clean...no dings and dents....an interior that doesn't smell like sweat shop or have claw marks all over the dashboard. See where I'm coming from? Why on earth would I spend $60k-$70k on a used TT Supra that will have imperfections, then another $15k-$20k on parts to make it the way I want it aesthetically with ~800HP, when I can get a GTR (for example) that is basically the same price, has 2018 technology, has a factory warranty, and has enough power that with a few simple bolt-on's will make nasty power "without" splitting open the motor. This is why I kept saying in my previous posts, I don't care about a manual trans, or vents, or whatever....if Toyota delivers a SOLID, STRONG, and POWERFUL platform out of the box, for $60k...I would be the first in line to buy one with every option on the list.

I think anyone that thinks enthusiasts don't care about warranty is incorrect. Period.

They might not care if the car is old already, but if the car is brand new you can get bet your bottom dollar they do.
This is very true....alot of people assume the guys who can spend big money on cars, don't care if the car has a warranty. This is one of the main reasons I stopped pursuing MKIV Supra's is because for $60k+, anything that happens to the car (modding or not) is your responsibility! That's not exactly the case with new cars....even after you mod them.
 

A70TTR

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That's a rather puerile response. Why are you even here?


Anyway, @A70TTR with all this talk about power, weight and price (not sure if I missed it in my lurking), is the retractable wing still a thing? haven't see any pics of prototypes with. Or is it that the camo accommodates for the wing deployed?
It was tested, but it hasn't been a thing since early on afaik.
 

jm6k

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This actually makes me think that......I don't know ANY "car guys" who buy cars brand new. Not one. Even the late 30's defense contractor types making $150k/yr bought their R35 GT-R's or their BMW 6 series used. One in particular had an Evo 7 for a daily....and an 1100hp RB26-swapped Silvia S15 for drag racing, which he replaced with the GT-R. I don't think that guy, or anyone else I know, would consider anything "out of the box good". If I ever buy a Lamborghini Huracan Performante, I'd probably spend the first weekend looking in the engine bay for stuff to upgrade, short of going twin turbos.

So I really have no idea what kind of person is moving these cars off the lot new, and I was too young to know original MkIV Supra buyers either. I guess this is an interesting insight.
This is what I mean when I say that I think Toyota is targeting the people who don't really know cars, but want a sports car to feel good about themselves or whatever their reasoning is. They know there's a significant market base there that will buy the car, so they add the bloated features that those people want. That's how they move them off the lot in the first place, but also know that people like us will get our hands on them eventually and turn them into what the MKIV is today. We know getting the car in the 3000lb range is attainable and we know that more power is attainable. Toyota is just trying to sell as many of them as they can. In doing so they're making some unfortunate sacrifices for any enthusiast that's hoping to get a new one and be happy with it, but it seems like that's their marketing strategy. Not sure why they don't just offer different trim levels (GRMN aside, let me decide if I want power seats on the base model), but Toyota seems to really be cutting back on options lately and only offering what they think most people will want.

As far as options, take the Tacoma for example. In Canada, you can get a 6 speed manual, access cab, TRD Off Road. In the US, you can get a 6 speed manual, access cab, TRD Sport. You can't get either of them in the other country. They're built at the same location. Those 6 speed manual TRD Off Road trucks get transported straight through the US up to the border before they'll sell one. The truck is literally in production, all options are approved by the US government in various other forms, but they will not sell you that combination on this side of the border. Their packaging just makes no sense to me, but there must be some logistics cost-cutting involved, which is what it all comes down to.
 

Modal170

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It was tested, but it hasn't been a thing since early on afaik.
On a different note, the Miata has confirmed to increase the power by 26.

So now it is at 181 hp and potentially no weight changes while bumping the revline to 7500.

I know Tada has said no changes for the 86 but for this second generation where they are competing with the miata, any news or predictions from this boost in competition?
 

A70TTR

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Tada is officially retired and is only on temp contract to complete the Supra.

I would be surprised if he is returning for 86 gen 2, especially given his overall health (hip issues, stressed out etc).


I personally don't think Toyota has much of a plan right now, and if I was them I'd task engineering with developing or sourcing a slightly more powerful engine along with adding some more chassis stiffening.
 

Matador

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So many folks still up in arms about the collaboration on Toyota's sports cars. Toyota is still a business last I checked, and no matter how much they make on automotive appliances, their sports cars still have to make sense. The 86/BRZ would *not* exist without Toyota, no matter how much anybody wishes it to be so. Same applies for the Z4/Supra. Say what you want about who engineers what, that is a FACT.

American manufacturers spread their platforms and parts pretty wide, and have always had a massive market for Vettes, Stangs and Camaros. Not many other manufacturers enjoy that.

I as much as anybody else would be disappointed if the rumors about an overweight, underpowered, overpriced (relatively) car wearing the Supra badge were to come true, but I think those expecting a direct recreation of the relative capability and market position of the Mk4 at a $40-$50k price point in 2019 are being completely unreasonable and living in the past.

IIRC, a big deal was made about the Supra needing to have an I6. Toyota no longer manufactures I6s. They were never going to develop one from scratch for the Mk5 and if they did, I'm pretty sure we'd be looking at a $150k car. I would also expect that the same ppl balking at the LFA's pricetag heads would explode at the though of a $150k Supra. So you asked for an I6, you got it. That came with a lot attached. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. An expensive Supra already died in the market, what sensible business would attempt to make the same mistake twice?
 

Matador

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Oh, one more thing. With a B58 based iron block, would Yamaha have done any work on the head?
 

Prius_F_Sport

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Probably not. The way the prototype sounds, it looks like it's just gonna be a slightly muted S58 Bimmer engine.
Besides, different manufacturers.
I'm not an expert tho.
 

Modal170

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Tada is officially retired and is only on temp contract to complete the Supra.

I would be surprised if he is returning for 86 gen 2, especially given his overall health (hip issues, stressed out etc).


I personally don't think Toyota has much of a plan right now, and if I was them I'd task engineering with developing or sourcing a slightly more powerful engine along with adding some more chassis stiffening.
I figured. I don't expect Tada to return as I'd much prefer he sleeps and jsut enjoy the creations and contribution he's made. He will be looked up to for what he's able to do in a difficult business practice in Toyota, along with providing junior engineers who were just like him pushing pencils and waiting to be put on a project like the Supra.

If the Supra hit toyota's sales goal, will this at least make them check the 86 and other avenue for sport cars? Cause I feel Toyota is being financially cautious and will continue to do so in the sports market. Which makes me wonder what compromises will be done if they go MR2 or Celica on us
 

PerformanceSound

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Tada is officially retired and is only on temp contract to complete the Supra.

I would be surprised if he is returning for 86 gen 2, especially given his overall health (hip issues, stressed out etc).


I personally don't think Toyota has much of a plan right now, and if I was them I'd task engineering with developing or sourcing a slightly more powerful engine along with adding some more chassis stiffening.
That doesn't sound too promising....the head of engineering for the MKV Supra retiring just before the launch of the final product??? He probably is thinking, "hell yeah...getting my pension finalized before shit hits the fan with this car." Kidding...kidding :p.
 

vb22

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Ya, and to be honest, I'm not sure why people keep quoting the price of the previous Supra as a reason to justify its cost. The Supra was discontinued because of a lack of sales, was it not? Why put it in the same price bracket? Especially today?

Back in the 90s it was ground breaking...but these days, what are they offering thats new or worth the price tag? Its co-developed with BMW...I just don't understand why a car that's being co-developed is being sold at such a premium. I guess I'm an idiot for assuming the reduced development cost would some how reward the buyer instead of the manufacturer.
That was not my intent. If anything it shows that turbo to turbo, the new one will be around $10k less.

You need to look at the whole picture. The A80 did fine in the US for the first 3 years. The 96s took a sales dive cause the manual transmission was pulled. The 97s sales went up a little when the MT was available again. However by that time the damage was already done. GM released the more powerful, lighter weight, less expensive, and some may even say better looking C5. That was really the final nail in the coffin for the A80. Let me say it again encase you missed it. The A90 should be priced less than the C7.

I'm not sure why you are surprised by this. Yes, joint projects saves the manufacturers both time and cost. The "savings" never get past onto the consumers. If they did we would have seen a $18k 86. I wouldn't say you are an idiot, but you clearly don't understand how the auto industry works. My friend is an engineer over at Hyundai. He told he laughs at a lot of the comments he reads online by internet "experts". It takes a lot more than what most people think to launch a new product. Since @A70TTR is an engineer for Toyota maybe he can fill us in on what goes on behind the scenes at Toyota.
 

tarpatel

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I think you guys are underestimating the dollar / yen issue in the mid 90's and the demise of Japanese sports cars. Just go look up what a Turbo Mr2 cost in 91 vs 95. That is all about the dollar / yen and nothing to really do with customer interest. Well of course the sales went down because the cost went up...due to the dollar / yen.

It was the reason why many badass Japanese cars were discontinued here but not in other places in the world. For example the RX7, 3000GT etc etc along with the MKIV and MR2. Only Honda seemed to stick it out with the NSX for a few more years.

I'm sure the older guys on this board remember.
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