Nissan Z vs Toyota Supra

[Last Lemming]

I get the “feel” thing, I’ve owned a Mustang GT, Miata, RX8, BRZ, 86 911, 86 944 Turbo (still own this one) and all these cars are in some way great fun drivers cars, BUT once you’ve convinced yourself that “feel” is more important and you buy that “feel” car, once you’ve had it for a while and the high has worn off you’re ultimately stuck with a car that is objectively worse, in every measurable category (GR Supra vs Z for instance) and you can’t eliminate the feeling that your car is simply not as capable, and at the end of the day while it may be fun to drive it can never be taken seriously and falls to the bottom of the performance ledger - and that feeling folks never goes away, if it did car enthusiasts would buy a stock Miata and never move on.

but that’s not most of us is it?

BTW I think the Supra feels fine, so it’s a win/win for me! And the feeling I get knowing I can crush (Including Mr. Z) most cars ain’t half bad either.

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[kaj]

BTW I think the Supra feels fine, so it’s a win/win for me! And the feeling I get knowing I can crush (Including Mr. Z) most cars ain’t half bad either.

That's fair. For some of us, being spoiled by driving really, really GOOD cars (not on paper), it's kinda hard to be okay with giving some of that up to go faster. Oddly enough: most cars that feel spectacular and are super fun to drive are usually underpowered and/or underwhelming in other ways. I.E. I had more fun driving my FWD sub-200hp ITR than most cars I've owned, though lap times weren't even close. My current track hooker is more fun to drive than the Supra, but the Toyota is going to end up being an overall faster car. FWIW I almost sold the Evo for a GTR but didn't want to lose out on all the fun of driving just for better lap times. I'm making an exception for the Supra because it's RWD which is always my favorite.
If the Z is more engaging to drive and can be modded to be a better car, I think it will be a winner. I look forward to see what the aftermarket does for it.
I'm getting older and don't want to get THAT into modding a car any more so another box checked, for me, by the Supra.

 

[JoeDaMechanic]

All you Supra fanbois are neglecting one thing: driver’s feel.

I'm sure the driver definitely felt this one.

 

[RenRed2]

I'm sure the driver definitely felt this one.

He will have fun parting that out on a 370Z forum lol

 

[UCLAKoolman]

I'm sure the driver definitely felt this one.

Cammisa predicted that a lot of these Z’s were going to end up wrecked on the side of the road…

 

[zrk]

Cammisa predicted that a lot of these Z’s were going to end up wrecked on the side of the road…

So did literally everyone.

 

[RenRed2]

So did literally everyone.

Jason was clear the car becomes a bit unstable too quickly at times. Again thats not a pure tire blame issue. The vehicle dynamics are more to be at fault usually.

Given the price that is realistic out the door we wont see tooo many super young drivers bashing them too early possibly.

 

[JoeDaMechanic]

Jason was clear the car becomes a bit unstable too quickly at times. Again thats not a pure tire blame issue. The vehicle dynamics are more to be at fault usually.

Given the price that is realistic out the door we wont see tooo many super young drivers bashing them too early possibly.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/someone-wrecked-a-2023-nissan-z-already

Looks like it was someone who probably used to work at a dealership.

 

[RenRed2]

https://www.thedrive.com/news/someone-wrecked-a-2023-nissan-z-already

Looks like it was someone who probably used to work at a dealership.

OOOPs the youth did not disappoint!!

 

[XtremeMaC]

Yet another RT comparison.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a40978570/2023-nissan-z-vs-2022-toyota-supra/

 

[BadOne]

Bruh...slower than the land boat on wheels.
Slower than a GR86.

 

[UCLAKoolman]

With the GR86 on the heels of the Nissan Z, and getting destroyed by the 3.0 Supra (especially in Throttle House’s latest vide - ouch!), I now REALLY want to see the Z go up against the 2.0 Supra on a track.

 

[UCLAKoolman]

Bruh...slower than the land boat on wheels.
Slower than a GR86.

Now let’s get a 2.0 Supra on this list and really see where the rainbow ends!

 

[vb22]

https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/t...-z-performance-vs-2022-toyota-supra-3-0.1392/

2023 Nissan Z Performance vs. 2022 Toyota Supra 3.0

An old rivalry, reignited. The winner was clear.

BY CHRIS PERKINS

AUG 25, 2022

DW BURNETT

Nostalgia is a powerful thing. It pervades so much of the zeitgeist, with TV reboots getting cranked out at an almost alarming

rate, and vinyl record sales topping $1 billion for the first time since 1986. Car enthusiasts are a particularly nostalgic bunch; just look at the values of the cars Gen X and Millennials saw as icons. This cultural force has seen a number of great nameplates revived, like the Toyota Supra, or reinvigorated with an eye towards past glories, as is the case with the new Nissan Z.

Z vs. Supra is by no means a perennial battle like Mustang vs. Camaro, though the 300ZX and Supra went after the sort looking for a fast, technologically advanced, sports-GT through the Eighties and Nineties. Today, these two fit the more traditional sports car mold: Six-cylinder engines under a long hood, two seats in the middle, driven wheels at the back.

Price Comparison

This comparison test was obvious beyond any nostalgic connections. The Nissan Z costs $51,015 in "Performance" guise, makes 400 hp and 350 lb-ft from a twin-turbo V-6 and weighs 3507 pounds. The Supra 3.0 starts at $52,500, makes 382 hp and 368 lb-ft from a single-turbo straight-six, and weighs 3347 pounds.

(We're simplifying things a bit, as the base Z costs $41,015, though it does without the limited-slip differential, upgraded brakes, and sportier suspension tune of the Performance model. The Supra starts at $43,450, however, that's with four-cylinder power. Our Z tester was a $54,015 2023 "Proto" spec, mechanically identical to the Performance but with gold wheels and yellow interior accents. The Supra was a 2022 Premium model retailing for $57,355.)

Choice of venue was obvious, too. Lime Rock Park is one of America's great road courses, fast, flowing, and surrounded by gorgeous country roads that would give us the opportunity to thoroughly test each car. Lime Rock is also one of the tracks where the original Datsun Z made its mark, earning a reputation as one of the finest sports cars on sale in America. Driving a car that evokes the 240Z, channeling legends like Bob Sharp, Sam Posey, Paul Newman, and many others, was irresistible.

Did someone say something about nostalgia?

Nissan Z on Track

The Z exudes traditional sports-car charm. This new model rides on the same chassis as the 370Z, itself an update of the 350Z that entered production 20 years ago,

Consequently, it feels old, but in a good way.

While not an out-and-out track car, the Z was a joy around Lime Rock, and impressively quick. Editor-at-Large Travis Okulski was on hand to set lap times, and we followed our usual procedure where each car got a handful of hot laps. The idea is not to get the quickest time possible, but to show how approachable a car is. The Z posted a 1:02.603 in its third flying lap around the "classic" 1.5-mile layout of the circuit. A very respectable time, and one that wasn't difficult to achieve, thanks to its balanced chassis, stability under braking, and communicative controls. Okulski said the Z drives like a big Miata and everyone else agreed.

There's a fair bit of body roll in cornering, though the car never feels like it's overworking the tires. That roll, combined with well-weighted steering—and a great steering wheel—give the driver a tangible sense of connection. Okulski noted some mid-corner understeer in Lime Rock's long first turn, Big Bend, yet it can be managed with a slight lift of the throttle. It's all wonderfully cohesive, the rear faithfully following the front, giving the driver a ton of confidence.

Nissan equipped our tester with NISMO brake pads, which will be available at dealers for $450 a set. The brakes were a highlight, giving fade-free performance throughout our track time. Pedal feel was good, too, with a little bit of "sneeze factor" at the top of the travel, and easy modulation. Those are great qualities for Lime Rock, which has only one big brake zone, at the end of the front straight, where the Z was hitting around 125 mph, and a few spots where a dab of brake is necessary to scrub off speed. The only caveats here are that the pads are quite pricey and generate an extraordinary amount of dust.

The Z returns to turbocharging for the first time since the demise of the Z32 300ZX in 2000, borrowing a 3.0-liter unit from Infiniti. When you first get on throttle, there's a bit of lag, followed by the two turbochargers spooling up very progressively and providing linear delivery to a little over 6000 rpm. (Peak power is achieved at 6400 rpm, but torque drops off above 5200 rpm.) Overall, it's a very nice engine, if not entirely special, and it gives the Z serious pace.

Manual Is a No-Cost Option on the Toyota Supra

Our tester was equipped with a manual, and we couldn't be more delighted. Well, we could. The gates aren't as precisely defined as we'd like, and both Okulski and I worried about accidental 5-2 downshifts braking into turn one. I found the pedals to

be well-spaced for heel-and-toe, though Okulski—who has excessively long legs—didn't. It's somewhat of a moot point, because the transmission comes with auto rev-matching—something Nissan pioneered—which works intuitively. A short-shift kit would help the feel here. We kept coming back to two words: "engaging" and "fun." The Z is a great sports car, plain and simple, a reminder of why we fell in love with sports cars in the first place. For the money, a Camaro SS 1LE is perhaps a better track car, but for someone who mainly drives on the road and does one or two track days a year, the Z is just about perfect.

Toyota Supra on Track

Notably, "engaging" or "fun" were not words used to describe the Supra. Fast? Definitely. It beat the Z with a 1:02.151 and we're confident it could've gone even quicker (a Supra test we did in 2019 for an all-out lap time saw one turn a 1:01.51 at Lime Rock). Thank the Supra's Michelin Pilot Super Sports, which are superior to the Z's Bridgestone S007s, the eight-speed automatic in this test car, and a higher roll stiffness. Unfortunately, we're still about a month out from testing the new, manual Supra, making this a slightly lopsided fight.

The experience simply isn't as enjoyable. Speed comes much easier in the Supra, though there's a nagging sense that the car is more eager to bite you. The rear end is far too soft, wandering under braking, struggling with the prodigious output of the BMW straight-six, and generally unable to keep up with the very sharp front end. Unlike with the Z, where you occasionally have to think about the fronts washing out, the Supra requires focus on the rear.

It's not all bad, of course. The engine is the highlight, far smoother than the Z's V-6 and with much better throttle response despite only having one turbo. There's much more low-end torque, too, and the straight-six pulls harder to its 7000-rpm redline. Most of the time, the ZF eight-speed automatic works as seamlessly as you'd expect, though Okulski and Digital Director Aaron Brown found that it occasionally denied downshifts.

Interestingly, we all felt the Supra wouldn't be as engaging as the Z even if it had a manual. At least not without some meaningful chassis tweaks. The Toyota holds you at arm's length, with dead steering, and not much more feel through the seat of your pants either. It's faster in hands of all experience levels, just not fun.

"The Supra feels like a newer car," Okulski said. "Which is to say, it has all the bad traits of new cars and all the good traits. It's got a quicker gearbox, a much better, more responsive engine, better tires, a more connected front end, and it also feels like it was built only in pursuit of lap times, not making the driver feel involved in the process."

This Is Not the Toyota Supra I Wanted

On the Road

Out on the road, it was a similar story. The Z's playfulness stood out, and the softer setup started to make even more sense. It breathes better with the road and engages at lower speeds, even if it's easily capable of pace that could charitably be described as "extralegal." Outside the track, in the beautiful countryside at Connecticut's north westerly border with New York, the Z feels at home. At road speeds, the turbo lag and the relative imprecision of the gearbox become less noticeable. It is, however, obvious that the Z is a much older car inside, with a lot of cheap

switchgear carried over from the 370Z and other Nissan products. It's a necessary evil, as Nissan doesn't have the development budget to build a sports car from the ground up. It’s also easily forgivable because the important stuff—seats, steering wheel, transmission, pedals—is all lovely. The gauge cluster is especially great and gimmick-free, with a nice big tach in the middle and legible gauges for temperatures and pressures. Exactly what you need in a sports car. Bonus points go to the three auxiliary gauges on the dashboard, the best of which is the highly unusual turbo speed sensor, a knock-on benefit of Nissan's use of speed sensors on the turbine shafts.

The Supra's BMW roots are obvious in the cabin, and it feels much more luxurious

than the Z. There's a slickness and polish Nissan simply can't match. In some ways, the Supra is the better daily driver, the preferable car to be in when you're puttering around town, clicking off miles on the highway, sitting in traffic, listening to a podcast. Yet, when you're trying to have fun, the Supra doesn't deliver. It's a car that leaves the driver feeling cold and distant, and the suspension tuning isn't right. That rear end skips over bumps and imperfections, and it's much harder to get into a flow with the road surface beneath.

In a perfect world, you'd have the Z's chassis and stunning exterior and the Supra's engine and interior. We don't live in a perfect world, so the Z remains the best choice. After all, this is a sports car. We don't buy sports cars on interior trim; we buy them for the joy they bring to our lives.

Which brings us back neatly to nostalgia. In far more than just looks, the Z evokes the spirit of the sports car greats, its predecessors among them. It's fun for fun's sake, the rare modern car that truly engages the senses like a classic.

It's something of a triumph from Nissan. Its track record over the last few years has been lackluster. We were prepared for disappointment, but the Z lives up to its promise. It's one of the best Nissans since the GT-R. Despite being made with theoretically better, more modern components, the Supra's whole is less than the sum. I'd like to think there's a great sports car in there somewhere, and maybe the 2023 version will be exactly that. For now, if you want a great Toyota-badged sports car, buy a GR86.

For the nostalgia obsessed, the choice is obvious.

 

[Sub-MkV]

The Z finally gets a review with an edge over the Supra. I find it hilarious how many reviewers can have differing views. It could be based on what one feels is more for them.

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