Petition Against The 'Supra' Badge

[Captain_Kirk]

Again, the market of a 2 seater vehicle is far less significant then the 4 seater market. Even with 2 doors.

1. According too whom?
2. Who the f**** buys a sports car to haul people around in?
3. So that would mean the 2+2 Lexus LC would outsell the 2 seater Mercedes SL.

2018
SL: 2,126
LC: 1,979

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[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

 

[Captain_Kirk]

Captain Euro Fanboy, I will spoon feed you something on topic. The 3series BMW coupes with same engine, same # of doors, same power have been doing just fine than the 2 seater Z4.

BMW 3-series US sale figure in April 2017 was 3,494. Source: http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/bmw-3-series-sales-figures/

BMW USA
Z4
2018 4
2017 502...................... 502 cars sold in 2017. I wonder why BMW took the Supra badge. Toyota sold you out!
2016 1.187
2015 1.829
2014 2.151
2013 2.480
2012 2.751
2011 3.479
2010 3.804
2009 3.523
2008 5.879
2007 10.097
2006 12.284
2005 10.045
2004 13.654
2003 20.169
2002 3.704
2001 970
2000 317
http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/bmw/bmw-z4/

BMW Europe
Z4
2018 125
2017 244...............244 sold in 2017. Any manufacture would have killed production. Toyota is getting paid.
2016 3.006
2015 4.093
2014 5.373
2013 5.970
2012 7.508
2011 9.417
2010 13.153
2009 13.497
2008 6.116
2007 15.281
2006 15.844
2005 14.137
2004 18.452
2003 22.973
http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-data/bmw/bmw-z4/

Please get your "facts" right. It's been called the 4 series for a few years now, not "3 series coupe". The Z4 vs the GT 4 series is in a different segment.

Also sales of the Z4 was super low after 2016 because prouction had already stopped. But left overs were still be sold afterwards. Kinda like how Toyota stopped importing the Supra to the US in 98, but the ones still sitting on the dealerlots were still for sale in 99.

 

[Captain_Kirk]

7. The MKV will never retain a fair resale value.

And you MKIII owners are definitely experts on this topic.

 

[Supra21]

Take a hint Captain!

To all you MKV fanboy I have highlighted 7 major things.

1. Production line of the Z4 should have been canceled.
2. Toyota gave BMW the ultimate sales pitch.
3. Toyota's CEO had been in office since 2009.
4. Toyota have turned-off the MKV's potential because co-development.
5. The damage have also impacted the Supra's aftermarket supporting community, some who may never support BMW.
6. The MKV is essentially 80% BMW or more.
7. The MKV will never retain a fair resale value.

Worse comes to worse the MKV is just a mule to generate money for ____. Coming from a Supra owner Toyota had sold us out to gullible little fanboys like you.

Well...submit your petition and speak for those that share your side rather than consistently blowing smoke here.
Then we can wait...someone will be wrong. I'm not saying it'll be you or MKV fans...but in the long run things will play out as they will for whatever side. It really is no big deal lol

 

[Therealist]

You are right, I was one of the biggest skeptics on this forum. I wanted to see a 100% Toyota built sportscar as much as anyone else. Then, I met "people" who shared some information with me that opened my eyes to the reality of the performance automotive industry today. Hence why I bought a brand new STI, in process of acquiring a R34 GTR, and in the future a MKV Supra. You have learn to embrace the future of high performance cars, they truly are superior to the past cars.

Also, im not bitter....I am being realistic. The majority of MKIV owners are against the MKV for what reasons??? The MKV outperforms the MKIV in every category, so why do they hate it so much?? It is to drive up demand and keep resale costs high...this is the same thing LandCruiser guys did too. It's nothing new, it has been happening for ages. Don't take everything that is realistic as bitterness or hate, sometimes you have to accept the truth. Those who can't handle the truth fight it non-stop.

I wanted to see a Toyota built sports car for the following reasons:

Toyota could afford the development. They made $23 billion in profit last financial year. They could afford the development costs.

Although this brings me onto point 2. That they didn’t need to develop anything new. A supra doesn’t need a straight 6. A Lexus powerplant or shared chassis would have sufficed and it would have stayed truer to the heritage much like the MKIV development where it was shared and developed on the soarer platform.

3rd I don’t like BMWs anymore, due to reliability issues. Having owned a couple now I am hugely disappointed at how lacklustre they are after a short amount of time. Had total engine failure on one of these. Never again.

People who claim to have their eyes opened don’t realise that all of this screams a lack of creativity/ambition. Toyota pushed the boundaries in 1993. The new supra doesn’t perform much better than the last generation and we’ve had 25+ years of advancement. Where is this shown? Back in 1993 the supra outperformed the Ferrari 348 and the Porsche 911 and for a fraction of the cost. Now? It’s competing against cheaper competitors that outform it. That’s not living up to the legacy at all.

I have no doubt that modern cars are much more superior but this car does not compete at the same level it used to. Which is a huge shame as they had the capability.

I’m not against it but I am hugely disappointed. I’ve been waiting for this moment for a long time now and have been underwhelmed. I expected them to release a car that’s would compete or beat cars that were more money as that’s the supras real legacy. It was a fast car stock back then. The new one just isn’t.

Whenever I hear it is better than the MkIV I always think: “as it should be but it’s still not competing with anything substantial”

Everyone likes to use the excuse that it would be unaffordable? The RCF platform is $70000, if you took the chassis and stripped it down. Less luxury and more performance then you’d have a 60k supra worthy of the name but there are many other options they could have picked. I don’t begrudge anyone on here buying one. I just don’t feel it lives up to the name.

Speaking of which I have a reserve available for one of the first in the UK if anyone is interested

 

[twntrbo03']

There is a big movement by MKIV owners to downplay the the MKV to drive up demand and resale value of the MKIV....it is apparent everywhere.

That is complete bullshit! There is apparent disgust all over the web surrounding this car from most people of all walk and sizes and I guarantee most don't own a MKIV... to say that is a completely ignorant statement on your part. The value of MKIV's isn't going to be impacted by the MKV, I am so over hearing this from people. They are two COMPLETELY different cars. MKIV values will remain where they are or continue to increase because it's a car that people want for XYZ reasons. I'm a MKIV owner and I'm not thrilled about this car being called a Supra, but I still want it to do well to open up the possibility of future models from Toyota. As of right now we have no actual facts regarding these GRMN models or future models. The only FACT we have from Toyota is that there is a TRD version, but to not expect a bump in power or torque. I've said it before, but the real winners are the guys over at BMW. The aftermarket support for this car will most likely be great because the name Supra is attached to it and EVERYONE knows the name Supra. I've heard plenty of horror stories regarding the B58 from friends that are heavy into BMW's, but I wont cast judgment until the car has been out for awhile. If Toyota did in fact work out all the reliability issues with the car that's great! I'm sure it will make a lot of Toyota techs happy as well haha

 

[PerformanceSound]

That is complete bullshit! There is apparent disgust all over the web surrounding this car from most people of all walk and sizes and I guarantee most don't own a MKIV... to say that is a completely ignorant statement on your part. The value of MKIV's isn't going to be impacted by the MKV, I am so over hearing this from people. They are two COMPLETELY different cars.

I said there is a big movement by MKIV owners, I didn’t say it’s the only reason. Guy’s like Rob Ferretti talk down about the MKV when they haven’t even stepped foot in the car....then immediately go on to talk about how he will sell his 94’ TT for $120k. Not all MKIV owners are of this mindset, but I believe a large majority are.

Google: Tulip Mania

It should put the MKIV’s situation into better perspective.

 

[DesmoSD]

I said there is a big movement by MKIV owners, I didn’t say it’s the only reason. Guy’s like Rob Ferretti talk down about the MKV when they haven’t even stepped foot in the car....then immediately go on to talk about how he will sell his 94’ TT for $120k. Not all MKIV owners are of this mindset, but I believe a large majority are.

Google: Tulip Mania

It should put the MKIV’s situation into better perspective.

You know where else there is a "big movement"... the BMW forum.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24344582#post24344582

 

[johnny_10196]

bummerpost is just mad because:

1. They're badge whores
2. A BMW is sharing bones with a TOYota
3. They aren't getting a Z4 coupe. Well at least not one with their preferred stylings
4. Supra is undercutting their Z big time
5. They're badge whores

 

[DesmoSD]

bummerpost is just mad because:

1. They're badge whores
2. A BMW is sharing bones with a TOYota
3. They aren't getting a Z4 coupe. Well at least not one with their preferred stylings
4. Supra is undercutting their Z big time
5. They're badge whores

Ok fine, how about the other forums. IMO, as @twntrbo03' mentioned in his post, it's not just MKIV owners but those who know like sports cars as well.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/208826-Supra/page2?p=1989162#post1989162

https://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/191474-new-toyota-supra-in-the-works/page-25

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132408&page=40

https://www.s2ki.com/forums/car-talk-73/new-supra-1191047/page9/

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/mustang-vs-2020-supra.116001/

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/off-topic/4224246-2020-toyota-supra-7.html

https://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f51/2020-toyota-supra-666141/index5.html

 

[supraz4]

The criticisms are understandable.
But what I don't understand is how hard all the car enthusiasts are trying to generalize that MKV Supra is bad not because the actual car is bad, but simply because it's a collaboration between Toyota and BMW.

The argument that went on on this thread has been covered in like other 10 threads in the general topics section, so I am a bit surprised that this thread got dragged out this far again.

I guess we will be beating this dead horse until the car is released and people starts to get their hands on one.
Until then, I think all arguments are sort of pointless at this point.

 

[Bryster]

Yes, you are absolutely correct! Like I have said numerous times, patience people patience! The B58 wasn't exercised much in the past by big name tuner shops because there was little to no demand for high HP 3 series or 5 series cars (let alone the SUV's and such). Now that it will be in a Supra, it's a whole different ball game. The MKV is a superior car to the MKIV, I don't care what the internet says. Everything about the car is better....especially considering that Toyota quality tested down to the nuts and bolts, I see no reason why this car will not do very well.

Remember, the 2JZ only had forged crank and rods I believe....the B58 is fully forged (crank, rods, and pistons). This motor will make huge power, people need to be patient. There is a big movement by MKIV owners to downplay the the MKV to drive up demand and resale value of the MKIV....it is apparent everywhere.

It's like i said earlier, people want a GTR competitor without considering the GTR lifecycle, is that the fate they want for the A90?

 

[johnny_10196]

Ok fine, how about the other forums. IMO, as @twntrbo03' mentioned in his post, it's not just MKIV owners but those who know like sports cars as well.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/208826-Supra/page2?p=1989162#post1989162

https://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/191474-new-toyota-supra-in-the-works/page-25

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132408&page=40

https://www.s2ki.com/forums/car-talk-73/new-supra-1191047/page9/

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/mustang-vs-2020-supra.116001/

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/off-topic/4224246-2020-toyota-supra-7.html

https://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f51/2020-toyota-supra-666141/index5.html

 

[DesmoSD]

The criticisms are understandable.
But what I don't understand is how hard all the car enthusiasts are trying to generalize that MKV Supra is bad not because the actual car is bad, but simply because it's a collaboration between Toyota and BMW.

The argument that went on on this thread has been covered in like other 10 threads in the general topics section, so I am a bit surprised that this thread got dragged out this far again.

I guess we will be beating this dead horse until the car is released and people starts to get their hands on one.
Until then, I think all arguments are sort of pointless at this point.

After Guff's video, it's more clear but still a bad decision by Toyota. Since the collaboration, the MKV shared the Z4's frame. That's why it had to be shorten 5 inches and lost the 2+2.

Toyota was free to design the exterior and interior but with shared parts from the BMW Z4 for that matter; not even from the M division. This is for the Supra too, pretty sad.

It's like copying your classmate's homework, changing some of the answers so it didn't look like you copied ONLY to realize you copied it from the kid that's getting a D in the class.

IMO, Toyota should have contracted BMW to provide just the I6 B58 engine, ECU and Getrag transmissions since they will be coming from Magna. The rest would be built entirely by Toyota.

People like us on the forum are the 2% compared to the rest of the car community. So when the photo's initially leaked out, it caught the attention of some of what the MKV Supra was going to look like. After the NAIAS more people saw it, then the Superbowl, a million + finally saw it.

I agree that once car reviewers start to give more in depth reviews, it might help calm some nerves but it'll still carry on that stigma as the "Z4 coupe".

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