Auto vs Manual - Which to Buy?

[FLtrackdays]

I haven’t really weighed in here yet, deciding to just watch from the sidelines with some popcorn instead, so I guess here it goes.

I’m almost 40 and the Supra is the first AT vehicle I’ve ever owned, everything else going back to when I was 15 has been MT. For decades I have been adamantly against ATs, every single one I’ve ever driven (family cars, friends’ cars, rentals) has been terrible. I had an Impala rental last year on vacation and the trans in that was fucking awful. I need to feel in control of the cars I own/drive, and until the Supra I thought that meant they had to be MT.

Well it turns out that what I need to feel “in control” comes from exactly two things:
1) Being in complete control over what gear the car is in at any time
2) No “slush” in the drivetrain - like when you hit the gas in an AT car and the engine revs up before it actually starts accelerating

Well for #1 you really just need a manual mode that works like you’d expect, not necessarily a full MT. And for #2 you either need a clutch or a locking torque converter, which the ZF8 has.

It turns out that, at least for me, fucking around with the clutch and gear lever have absolutely no impact on my feeling of being in control of or connected to the car. None.

The second aspect to MT vs AT is boredom/having something to do. With a slow car even the best AT is just boring when driving fast, you just floor it and…that’s it. Well once you get above about 4-500 hp with a rwd car that’s not the case anymore. There is plenty for you to do to keep things in line without having to muck about with a clutch/gear lever.

If the Supra was available in MT back when I got mine, I absolutely would have gone that route without a second thought, and I’d probably be on the other side of this conversation adamantly arguing that an MT is more enjoyable and you feel more in control. After having the AT for 2 years, if my car was suddenly totaled and I had to do it all over again, I’d almost certainly go with the AT again because now I know that argument is BS.

And my other, slow winter/grocery car, will probably stay MT for the foreseeable future because slow cars really need an MT so you have something to do.

Like you: before owning my supra, I would have been anti AT blah blah. I've never, ever owned a performance car that wasn't MT. I kept reading how the GT500 and Camaro are super fast with the 10spd autos, or whatever. I rolled my eyes. "F automatics" has always been my motto because, as we've all reiterated a million times in this thread alone (but some just can't seem to fathom), ATs used to S U C K. They don't any more.
I don't expect anyone to understand, as I didn't either. I'm not a hypocrite. I was just as closed-minded towards anything not MT, so I kinda expect any REAL enthusiast, who hasn't tried one out, to be the same.
But hey: If you drive both cars, without ever shifting, they both perform the same.

That’s it

Everyone just needs to relax. I don't drive around thinking I'm better than the automatic Supra drivers. It's all personal preference. I'll tell you what though, those smiles per gallon are priceless shifting my own gears even if the manual technically is marginally slower than the automatic. As I'm sure the automatic guys are sitting there glad they don't have to be stuck in rush hour traffic shifting gears.

And that

If this was a MX5 forum, I’d have to say the manual all the way. But for the Supra, with either transmission, she‘s a steal for real car enthusiast.

*(I think there are two active threads on this same subject . This may even beat which oil to use someday for most repetitive threads, lol)*

Sponsored

 

[kaj]

*(I think there are two active threads on this same subject . This may even beat which oil to use someday for most repetitive threads, lol)*

We ALL know 20w-50 is the bees knees

 

[zrk]

marginally

lol

 

[FnkDrSpok]

I haven’t really weighed in here yet, deciding to just watch from the sidelines with some popcorn instead, so I guess here it goes.

I’m almost 40 and the Supra is the first AT vehicle I’ve ever owned, everything else going back to when I was 15 has been MT. For decades I have been adamantly against ATs, every single one I’ve ever driven (family cars, friends’ cars, rentals) has been terrible. I had an Impala rental last year on vacation and the trans in that was fucking awful. I need to feel in control of the cars I own/drive, and until the Supra I thought that meant they had to be MT.

Well it turns out that what I need to feel “in control” comes from exactly two things:
1) Being in complete control over what gear the car is in at any time
2) No “slush” in the drivetrain - like when you hit the gas in an AT car and the engine revs up before it actually starts accelerating

Well for #1 you really just need a manual mode that works like you’d expect, not necessarily a full MT. And for #2 you either need a clutch or a locking torque converter, which the ZF8 has.

It turns out that, at least for me, fucking around with the clutch and gear lever have absolutely no impact on my feeling of being in control of or connected to the car. None.

The second aspect to MT vs AT is boredom/having something to do. With a slow car even the best AT is just boring when driving fast, you just floor it and…that’s it. Well once you get above about 4-500 hp with a rwd car that’s not the case anymore. There is plenty for you to do to keep things in line without having to muck about with a clutch/gear lever.

If the Supra was available in MT back when I got mine, I absolutely would have gone that route without a second thought, and I’d probably be on the other side of this conversation adamantly arguing that an MT is more enjoyable and you feel more in control. After having the AT for 2 years, if my car was suddenly totaled and I had to do it all over again, I’d almost certainly go with the AT again because now I know that argument is BS.

And my other, slow winter/grocery car, will probably stay MT for the foreseeable future because slow cars really need an MT so you have something to do.

This is what I did, the Supra is AT and I don't forsee me trading it for a MT. But I still wanted a MT so I got an Emira MT as well.

 

[Tacoma714]

lol

Here we go. Ok "drastically". I ain't out here clocking my 0-60 times racing. I will never see the track or drag strip otherwise I would have gotten automatic. Do you

 

[Tacoma714]

That’s it


And that

If this was a MX5 forum, I’d have to say the manual all the way. But for the Supra, with either transmission, she‘s a steal for real car enthusiast.

*(I think there are two active threads on this same subject . This may even beat which oil to use someday for most repetitive threads, lol)*

The which motor oil to use could easily replace the meaning of life debate

 

[zrk]

Here we go. Ok "drastically". I ain't out here clocking my 0-60 times racing. I will never see the track or drag strip otherwise I would have gotten automatic. Do you

Of course I agree. I'm just out here giving a hard time. Drive whatever the fuck you like/want. I don't care at all. Nor do I need to defend my own purchases to anyone else.

I'm just ruffling feathers because the internet is a dumb place.

 

[Tacoma714]

Of course I agree. I'm just out here giving a hard time. Drive whatever the fuck you like/want. I don't care at all. Nor do I need to defend my own purchases to anyone else.

I'm just ruffling feathers because the internet is a dumb place.

You know what though? After driving this bad boy the past few months, my next car I'd like for it to see the track and maybe go automatic in the future. Not enough places in "Mexico" to drive as fast as the Supra begs to be driven. Too many cops in Southern California. The track is likely where it's at for ultimate fun.

 

[bushido]

You know what though? After driving this bad boy the past few months, my next car I'd like for it to see the track and maybe go automatic in the future. Not enough places in "Mexico" to drive as fast as the Supra begs to be driven. Too many cops in Southern California. The track is likely where it's at for ultimate fun.

why not the supra?
i've seen tracks closing down, mostly drag strips. your car is a fantastic choice to experience the "ultimate fun" you mention.
i hit 126 on a curve at sebring.
while going 110, i was passed by a radical sr8 on a straight.

choose track, choose now!

 

[alan7467]

That’s it


And that

If this was a MX5 forum, I’d have to say the manual all the way. But for the Supra, with either transmission, she‘s a steal for real car enthusiast.

*(I think there are two active threads on this same subject . This may even beat which oil to use someday for most repetitive threads, lol)*

I'd take a manual in a Miata pretty much every time (and have on the 4 that I've owned). There's a lot more feedback in the form of vibrations and sounds from that car that make the use of the manual (on street) a real joy for me. I'd go so far as to say the manual in cars like that have spoiled manuals in other cars for me.

I had a manual Golf R that by comparison was very quiet and much more isolated. I ended up not liking that transmission because of it.

When I test drove the Supra (an AT mind you) I found it much quieter and much more isolated than something like a Miata. Not really a bad thing based on what I'm looking for in my next car, but it definitely influenced my decision to go with an auto this time round.

That's just my line of thinking though. No judgements wished upon those that would disagree or find it crazy.

 

[kaj]

You know what though? After driving this bad boy the past few months, my next car I'd like for it to see the track and maybe go automatic in the future. Not enough places in "Mexico" to drive as fast as the Supra begs to be driven. Too many cops in Southern California. The track is likely where it's at for ultimate fun.

I kinda feel for those that only drive the car on the street or occasional crash strip. There's a ton of untapped potential there.

I'd take a manual in a Miata pretty much every time (and have on the 4 that I've owned). There's a lot more feedback in the form of vibrations and sounds from that car that make the use of the manual (on street) a real joy for me. I'd go so far as to say the manual in cars like that have spoiled manuals in other cars for me.

I had a manual Golf R that by comparison was very quiet and much more isolated. I ended up not liking that transmission because of it.

When I test drove the Supra (an AT mind you) I found it much quieter and much more isolated than something like a Miata. Not really a bad thing based on what I'm looking for in my next car, but it definitely influenced my decision to go with an auto this time round.

That's just my line of thinking though. No judgements wished upon those that would disagree or find it crazy.

Good point. Driving a numb car with a MT is.... Actually kinda hard
I had a car that was super quiet and made it hard to drive. Luckily, there was a fuse I was able to remove that opened up the exhaust valve so I could hear the thing.
Prior to that it was downright unenjoyable.
Even in sport mode, I have a hard time, sometimes, hearing my exhaust note during track days.

 

[Zoomie]

New member - decided to wade into this never ending debate.
Before I bought an Evo X I went to Infineon to test drive one as part of a two day driving school. Based on that day I bought the MR with twin clutch auto. In my head I wanted the faster car and didn't have big power goals. I ended up with a stage 2 tune, but torque limited by the Getrag transmission; anything over 300tq and it went into limp. It was still a blast to drive and I don't regret my decision. I also daily drive my '05 RSX manual, so I've played in both worlds.

I have a '23 Supra MT on the way. I'm lucky that I live in a fairly light-traffic area. I've driven my RSX in stop & go traffic and no amount of track day fun can make up for the ache in my knee driving a manual in 5 hours of backed up traffic.

TLDR: AT if you want to go faster or have to manage slow traffic.
MT if you enjoy shifting and want that little extra distraction and fun.

 

[FuzzyRev]

New member - decided to wade into this never ending debate.

I have a '23 Supra MT on the way. I'm lucky that I live in a fairly light-traffic area. I've driven my RSX in stop & go traffic and no amount of track day fun can make up for the ache in my knee driving a manual in 5 hours of backed up traffic.

Congrats and welcome! Have you been able to test drive either version of an MKV yet?

 

[Zoomie]

Sat in one but wasn't able to test drive it because it was already sold. I've done lots of trips in the IV and wanted one, but they've gone from being driver's cars to collector's cars. Thanks for the welcome!

 

[Evolution]

This thread......

You guys dont know how to live until you daily drive a manual sequential trans with a quad disk solid hub 6 puck clutch.

Sponsored