Manual vs Auto (apprehension)

[PikkaGTR]

Toyota designed the chassis and engine and interior with the ZF 8 speed
The suspension tuning and power band reflects that
A lot of people complain and whine and Toyota gave in and modified the car to fit a rubbery BMW manual in it
Recalibrated the suspension, the traction system for the long gears
It is a compromise at best to get the MT in this chassis.
The mk4 supra has the car designed as a 6 speed and Toyota compromised to fit an auto into that chassis
I have driven both on a back road and canyon runs, I shift the ZF far more often than the MT
You kinda of stay in 2/3 for most of the run
I've also autoX the MT and stayed in 2nd the entire run
Talk about engagement ???

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[SupraCess]

Heres just a taste you POS npc

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/manual-or-automatic.16398/

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/auto-vs-manual-which-to-buy.18201/

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/switching-to-manual-from-auto-version.13128/

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/did-you-buy-a-23-in-manual-or-auto.17883/


https://www.supramkv.com/threads/2023-toyota-gr-supra-manual-review-thread.14725/

Thank you for sharing this, I know it's really hard to use the search feature on here, reddit, and youtube, lol!

 

[SupraCess]

If you commute in stop/go traffic for hours at times, a manual will get old really fast.

I like the ZF8 in the Supra, but I wouldn't have used traffic as a reason to buy one. I drove in stop and go traffic with manual cars for years, and switching gears didn't bother me. Traffic gets old with any transmission.

 

[SupraCess]

Toyota designed the chassis and engine and interior with the ZF 8 speed
The suspension tuning and power band reflects that
A lot of people complain and whine and Toyota gave in and modified the car to fit a rubbery BMW manual in it
Recalibrated the suspension, the traction system for the long gears
It is a compromise at best to get the MT in this chassis.
The mk4 supra has the car designed as a 6 speed and Toyota compromised to fit an auto into that chassis
I have driven both on a back road and canyon runs, I shift the ZF far more often than the MT
You kinda of stay in 2/3 for most of the run
I've also autoX the MT and stayed in 2nd the entire run
Talk about engagement ???

The manual gives you the brief pause so your brain knows what's going on and has time to process, lol! that's why people say it's engaging, lol. I'm just kidding.

 

[AHP]

The first 10 pax positions at an autocross are typically separated by a few tenths. i’ll take the tenths.
I’ve been an autocrosser for getting close to 40 years now and did track days when I was younger. This is the first performance car I’ve owned with an AT and I won’t go back.

But thats my use case. There’s no denying the MT is more engaging and I really enjoy running MT cars as well. I also get a kick out of the ridiculously quick full throttle shifts this trans can do in Sport+ mode. Both trans are fun in different ways.

Just pick what you like best and best fits your goals. There is no wrong choice.

Coincidentally, I just saw that a MT Supra dominated SCCA Solo Nats B-Street class by 1.5 seconds.

 

[romanLegion9574]

I've enjoyed my combo of auto Supra and manual GR Corolla on track and on fun drives. The Supra is one of those cars where the auto is so well sorted out that you're not really making a wrong choice IMO.

 

[exe36m3]

And saying to anyone who asks at a car meet, "No, it's an automatic."

So you are saying it's a self-esteem issue?

Just kidding brother.

FWIW logged over 100,00 miles/5+ years in stop and go traffic and bridges commuting into SF to the point of tearing my meniscus pushing that clutch in.

It can take all the joy out of driving a stick. So use case is something to consider as it's a lot of money to spend.

But I don't disagree, the stick is awesome. I commuted in my M3 and did track days and car schools in the same car.

 

[BMWAF]

So you are saying it's a self-esteem issue?

Just kidding brother.

LOL. No. ?

But this does reminds me of a time that I parked in front of a nice open air restaurant where patrons were sitting super close to the on street parking. When we returned to the car, I politely asked one of the guys sitting there to move his seat so my girlfriend could get in the car. He seemed annoyed and so to try and cut me down, asked me if it was a manual.. and then quickly stfu when I said, "yup."

At car meets, nobody says anything like that, but I can tell you that the majority of people who look inside and don't see an automatic get really excited, like they've stumbled upon something special and rare. I honestly couldn't care less - it's a very ordinary manual gearbox compared to my daily - but I have to say that there is an undeniable aura surrounding manual transmissions, particularly in nice cars like the Supra.

And let's face it, once manual transmissions are out of production, nobody is going to give two shits that the ZF8 was the best automatic transmission or magical or a few tenths faster: They're just going to care that a manual variant was produced and where tf can I see/buy an example of it.

For the record, I can happily agree that the ZF8 is a pretty good automatic transmission, but for my money, the very best ever automatic transmission in a sports car is always going to be a distant second to even the most ordinary manual transmission in the same model. ?‍

 

[nashcarr]

The ZF8 is great, for what it is, a very good slushbox. I LIKED it. However, once the manual arrived, I knew I had to have one. The car is so mich much more engaging to drive. I don't really mind the clutch delay valve so I won't be swapping that out anytime soon. The 1-2 shift can be a little jerky. Maybe due to delay valve? The worst thing is the gas mileage going down a little; I am still pulling ~27 on the highway. If I was concerned about gas mileage I certainly would not have purchased a GR Supra.
Purchase whichever car/transmission that you want, and then enjoy your purchase.

 

[iPan]

Toyota designed the chassis and engine and interior with the ZF 8 speed
The suspension tuning and power band reflects that
A lot of people complain and whine and Toyota gave in and modified the car to fit a rubbery BMW manual in it
Recalibrated the suspension, the traction system for the long gears
It is a compromise at best to get the MT in this chassis.
The mk4 supra has the car designed as a 6 speed and Toyota compromised to fit an auto into that chassis
I have driven both on a back road and canyon runs, I shift the ZF far more often than the MT
You kinda of stay in 2/3 for most of the run
I've also autoX the MT and stayed in 2nd the entire run
Talk about engagement ???

MT still more fun and not rubbery bro.

If you want fast just go get a plaid. ?

On top of that, it's a common misconception that they compromised to get the manual to fit the car.

There were already manual test mules before even the automatic version of the car came out. The only reason they didn't initially release a manual version of the car is because at the time, market data suggested they wouldn't make enough sales to make it worthwhile. If anything, more R&D was put into the manual since Toyota modified the ZF-6 speed manual transmission to be bespoke to the supra.

Also they're both ZF. One is just auto and the other manual. ZF8 vs ZFS6-53.

 

[DisMahhhlon]

I keep hearing that the automatic is faster, but that seems to be true from a dig. From a roll, it doesn't seem to be the case, since the MT has longer gears. I also think the tenths of a second don't really matter when you start modding, since there are so many variables. Wish there were more vids of stock auto vs manual both drag and road racing.

I've only had mine since May, but I love it. People always perk up when they talk to me about the car and hear it's a MT. No regrets from me!

 

[johnnyskids]

Considering you aren't planning on adding a whole heap of power, and didn't mention anything about trying to be the fastest at a track or strip, I think if your general preference for a sports car is manual you go that route.

Your worry about reliability is likely overblown because of the negative experience that some have had, most of which are typically due to adding a lot more power than originally intended for such a transmission. Of course any manual transmission can be unreliable in the wrong hands, so if you are at least decent with that skill set and don't do dumb shyt with your car, it should not be an issue.

Personally, when I drove the AT version I was a bit underwhelmed. There was no denying that it was fast, comfortable, and capable, but on the back road it just didn't give me the engagement that I was hoping for and I feel the manual fixes that with some more connection between the car and the driver. But that's just my experience.

 

[Camus]

I've had a 2020 FBO with E50, it was fun, but what I really wanted was a manual, so I got a G82 M4 manual. After almost 20k miles, I got bored of the M4, got a VB-WRX, MX5, Evora GT and finally went back to the Supra, but this time Manual.

Day and night difference. First, the manual doesn't feel BMW rubbery, after 2 years of that, I can tell, the Supra feels way better. But yeah, not as good as the MX5 though, but it's good enough. Compared to any other manual car, the power delivery, even stock is amazing on the manual, there is always torque, is very fun to drive.

Compared to the M4, it's way more nimble to drive (~350 lbs lighter). Also, the gearing and power delivery is completely different, the M4 is like:

2000 RPM - Nothing.
2500 RPM - Nothing.
3000 RPM - Nothing
4000 RPM - BOOOOOST

The Supra on the other hand, has power all way way. It has to do with the shorter gear ratios (compared to the M4), and the higher compression of the B58. Also, the S58 has turbo lag, a lot of it.

Now running catless DP and 92 octane custom tune, it's what I wanted 4 years ago. We haven't even started with E85 and the tires can't handle second gear

So far no clutch slip, let's see with E50, but my plan is to upgrade clutch and turbo anyway. If you want to keep it stock, the clutch will be more than ok, unless you don't know how to shift.

My daily is a M240i, so, I already have my dose of auto ZF everyday.

 

[concept]

I agree with all of above. I have a mt and love it. You are not going to change an ignorant person’s perspective so don’t try. Buy what you want and enjoy the heck out of it. A person who can’t drive a manual will always say an automatic is better and faster. Buy, drive and enjoy

Not really true for every case.
I have a much better manual transmission in my MX5, which I alternate-drive. I've been driving manuals for 50 years, but I've almost always had a manual and auto-trans cars. Each had its purpose regarding where I could park to how much heavy traffic was likely to be encountered.
Plus , I use my Supra for double duty - alone and with my wife. Having a manual transmission with her in the car is not fun at all.

 

[PikkaGTR]

Not really true for every case.
I have a much better manual transmission in my MX5, which I alternate-drive. I've been driving manuals for 50 years, but I've almost always had a manual and auto-trans cars. Each had its purpose regarding where I could park to how much heavy traffic was likely to be encountered.
Plus , I use my Supra for double duty - alone and with my wife. Having a manual transmission with her in the car is not fun at all.

The manual elitists tend to have this thinking
My M Roadster with the S54 and hydro steering rack is leaps and bounds more engagement than any modern BMW, MT A90 included
But I don't go around telling MT A90 drivers they have no feelings and feedback from their Fanatec Forza steering wheel ??
Also turbos with just 1 throttle body is for pleb daily driver pedestrian run of the mill cars.
Talk to me when you have ITBs

Or what I would say if I had the mental attitude of the Vegan ....erm... I mean Manual Transmission elitists

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