Auto vs Manual - Which to Buy?

[FuzzyRev]

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[Awales74]

Not often do you see an entire thread go TLDR; But you have to admire one when you see it.

 

[FLtrackdays]

Not often do you see an entire thread go TLDR; But you have to admire one when you see it.

I always admire new abbreviations when I see em

 

[ColonelAdama]

yeah those receipts, let's see them. I HPDE my auto Supra, and I shift it manually with the paddles, because it's just better than a stick. I pick the shift points, the same as with a stick. Just with more performance. "You're not doing it" except that I am.

We get it bro, you have buyers remorse for your auto. Enjoy your tenth quicker lap times.

I can't hate on anyone for their transmission preference but @Spart is right that most manual cars on sale in USA are enthusiast models - being sold to enthusiast drivers. Wouldn't say anything if you weren't trying to start shit about Americans.

BMW, Porsche, and now Toyota revive the MT on certain models due to American enthusiast demand. Be grateful that we're willing to pay to keep those options available.

 

[bushido]

this is all that matters lmao

 

[jtsang25]

We get it bro, you have buyers remorse for your auto. Enjoy your tenth quicker lap times.

I can't hate on anyone for their transmission preference but @Spart is right that most manual cars on sale in USA are enthusiast models - being sold to enthusiast drivers. Wouldn't say anything if you weren't trying to start shit about Americans.

BMW, Porsche, and now Toyota revive the MT on certain models due to American enthusiast demand. Be grateful that we're willing to pay to keep those options available.

Bmw is cutting it out of their new M Cars.

 

[ColonelAdama]

Bmw is cutting it out of their new M Cars.

Yeah, I saw the article on that.

https://jalopnik.com/finally-some-good-news-americans-are-buying-enough-man-1827934751

sorry for Jalopnik lol, but it is true that Americans are responsible for it lasting as long as it did.


Frank van Meel, head of BMW M division, said in 2018:

“The BMW M2 Competition still has the manual for a reason, because in the U.S. we have more than a 50 percent take rate on manual transmissions for the M2. Buyers vote with their wallets for manual transmissions. Now, being an engineer, I would say from a rational standpoint that even though the manual gearbox is lighter than an automated gearbox, it uses more fuel and is slower, so it doesn’t really make sense . . . But from the emotional standpoint, a lot of customers say, ‘I don’t care, I want to have one.’ As long as we have these take rates on M2, and also the M3 and M4, we’re going to offer manuals, because we listen to our customers. Even though as an engineer I’d say we don’t necessarily need one. If demand is so high, then why not fulfill it?”

 

[suicidaleggroll]

I haven’t really weighed in here yet, deciding to just watch from the sidelines with some popcorn instead, so I guess here it goes.

I’m almost 40 and the Supra is the first AT vehicle I’ve ever owned, everything else going back to when I was 15 has been MT. For decades I have been adamantly against ATs, every single one I’ve ever driven (family cars, friends’ cars, rentals) has been terrible. I had an Impala rental last year on vacation and the trans in that was fucking awful. I need to feel in control of the cars I own/drive, and until the Supra I thought that meant they had to be MT.

Well it turns out that what I need to feel “in control” comes from exactly two things:
1) Being in complete control over what gear the car is in at any time
2) No “slush” in the drivetrain - like when you hit the gas in an AT car and the engine revs up before it actually starts accelerating

Well for #1 you really just need a manual mode that works like you’d expect, not necessarily a full MT. And for #2 you either need a clutch or a locking torque converter, which the ZF8 has.

It turns out that, at least for me, fucking around with the clutch and gear lever have absolutely no impact on my feeling of being in control of or connected to the car. None.

The second aspect to MT vs AT is boredom/having something to do. With a slow car even the best AT is just boring when driving fast, you just floor it and…that’s it. Well once you get above about 4-500 hp with a rwd car that’s not the case anymore. There is plenty for you to do to keep things in line without having to muck about with a clutch/gear lever.

If the Supra was available in MT back when I got mine, I absolutely would have gone that route without a second thought, and I’d probably be on the other side of this conversation adamantly arguing that an MT is more enjoyable and you feel more in control. After having the AT for 2 years, if my car was suddenly totaled and I had to do it all over again, I’d almost certainly go with the AT again because now I know that argument is BS.

And my other, slow winter/grocery car, will probably stay MT for the foreseeable future because slow cars really need an MT so you have something to do.

 

[kaj]

Well it turns out that what I need to feel “in control” comes from exactly two things:
1) Being in complete control over what gear the car is in at any time
2) No “slush” in the drivetrain - like when you hit the gas in an AT car and the engine revs up before it actually starts accelerating

Well for #1 you really just need a manual mode that works like you’d expect, not necessarily a full MT. And for #2 you either need a clutch or a locking torque converter, which the ZF8 has.

It turns out that, at least for me, fucking around with the clutch and gear lever have absolutely no impact on my feeling of being in control of or connected to the car. None.

Like you: before owning my supra, I would have been anti AT blah blah. I've never, ever owned a performance car that wasn't MT. I kept reading how the GT500 and Camaro are super fast with the 10spd autos, or whatever. I rolled my eyes. "F automatics" has always been my motto because, as we've all reiterated a million times in this thread alone (but some just can't seem to fathom), ATs used to S U C K. They don't any more.
I don't expect anyone to understand, as I didn't either. I'm not a hypocrite. I was just as closed-minded towards anything not MT, so I kinda expect any REAL enthusiast, who hasn't tried one out, to be the same.
But hey: If you drive both cars, without ever shifting, they both perform the same.

 

[Tacoma714]

People still going on with this thread? Automatic as your daily or to race and be faster. Manual if you like the traditional feel of shifting your own gears.

 

[SupraCess]

People still going on with this thread? Automatic as your daily or to race and be faster. Manual if you like the traditional feel of shifting your own gears.

This will never end, SMH.

 

[J29DB03]

This will never end, SMH.

 

[kaj]

People still going on with this thread? Automatic as your daily or to race and be faster. Manual if you like the traditional feel of shifting your own gears.

This is the part some do not understand and why the thread keeps going.

 

[Tacoma714]

This is the part some do not understand and why the thread keeps going.

Everyone just needs to relax. I don't drive around thinking I'm better than the automatic Supra drivers. It's all personal preference. I'll tell you what though, those smiles per gallon are priceless shifting my own gears even if the manual technically is slower than the automatic. As I'm sure the automatic guys are sitting there glad they don't have to be stuck in rush hour traffic shifting gears.

 

[Ryanthetemp]

I wrote this some time back on another thread but I’ll share again here:

On to the manual…..I thought I would be picking up where I left off with the 20’ Launch edition but that isn’t the case surprisingly. I’m having to fall in love with the car all over again….which I’m respecting the process for what it is. My last manual was a gated Mondial T Ferrari, talk about a lot of work and effort to shift. The Supra is insanely lighter and kinda threw me for a loop, as I’ve never owned a modern manual. Just old 80s M cars with single-leg presses for a clutch. I guess I was expecting more drama from the manual Supra engagement points in the transaction of a shift. But no drama isn’t necessarily a bad thing, the car makes up for it in poise. In a perfect word I would have both the auto and manual. I love both for different reasons. The auto for its split personality in sport mode when it senses I want to play and will hold an aggressive gearing and then revert back when it senses I’m done with the throttle. With the manual I’m obviously doing it myself, but feel like an asshole for holding my gearing so long. The auto begged for it, the manual is just compliant and willing. That’s the drama I was talking about and just felt very sinister with the sound to complement in the LE auto.

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