Nissan Z vs Toyota Supra

[lucky phil]

I just can't wait for the day that people can order direct from manufacturer and you only need to go in and pick your car up or have it delivered to your door.

Dealerships that do this markup crap totally disgust me especially when we are already in an era currently with such high prices and nothing looks to be slowing down that pretty soon there won't be nearly as many car enthusiasts out there because they just will not be affordable to most people which is extremely unfortunate.

I can never figure this dislike with regards to markups from Americans in particular. I mean the US is the bastion of the free market capitalistic system which although far from perfect it is in large part responsible for the std of living we enjoy in the wester world today so what's the issue with dealers "trying" to maximise their profits? At the end of the day the market decides what it's willing to pay after all and those willing to pay the mark up for the dubious honour of being an early adopter surely have that right.
As for direct from the factory purchasing as a mass scale proposition well that's never going to happen in the automotive world because the manufacturers will never want the drama of dealing with the customer on a face to face daily basis. Although I'm no big fan of dealers that's mostly to do with their their technical support and competence.
You may be surprised to lean that the majority of the dealers profit isn't from selling the actual car.

Phil

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[Danimal]

No, dealer markups are a coordinated effort to benefit off of limited supply while adding no extra benefit vs the profit they would already make from the car. They also control the supply, as laws in most states force sales through dealerships because of billions of dollars spent on lobbying. Controlling supply and coordinating on raising prices simply to benefit those in charge is the literal definition of a cartel. It’s illegal, yet somehow legal for dealerships, and is very very not free market captialism.

Dan

I can never figure this dislike with regards to markups from Americans in particular. I mean the US is the bastion of the free market capitalistic system which although far from perfect it is in large part responsible for the std of living we enjoy in the wester world today so what's the issue with dealers "trying" to maximise their profits? At the end of the day the market decides what it's willing to pay after all and those willing to pay the mark up for the dubious honour of being an early adopter surely have that right.
As for direct from the factory purchasing as a mass scale proposition well that's never going to happen in the automotive world because the manufacturers will never want the drama of dealing with the customer on a face to face daily basis. Although I'm no big fan of dealers that's mostly to do with their their technical support and competence.
You may be surprised to lean that the majority of the dealers profit isn't from selling the actual car.

Phil

 

[Vertex]

I can never figure this dislike with regards to markups from Americans in particular. I mean the US is the bastion of the free market capitalistic system which although far from perfect it is in large part responsible for the std of living we enjoy in the wester world today so what's the issue with dealers "trying" to maximise their profits? At the end of the day the market decides what it's willing to pay after all and those willing to pay the mark up for the dubious honour of being an early adopter surely have that right.
As for direct from the factory purchasing as a mass scale proposition well that's never going to happen in the automotive world because the manufacturers will never want the drama of dealing with the customer on a face to face daily basis. Although I'm no big fan of dealers that's mostly to do with their their technical support and competence.
You may be surprised to lean that the majority of the dealers profit isn't from selling the actual car.

Phil

One thing I did not mention as I didn't think to nor thought someone would comment with what you did which I don't mind at all; when I had read a while back about this possibly becoming a think because of the dealers and their mark ups the service and parts side of the dealership will never go away so direct to the manufacturer wouldn't ever really be a thing unless people were trying to get an update or what have you with an order.

As far as profit and as @Danimal mentioned, dealers already make a profit off of every vehicle sale even if sold at msrp. There is a holdback amount they automatically get at the time of sale on top of whatever the difference in price is between the MSRP and actual cost at the dealers expense to attain said vehicle. Some vehicle the cost and MSRP varies more than others but they're always making a fairly good profit from every vehicle sale without a single penny of ADM added onto that price. They also get bonuses if they hit a certain number of vehicles sold in any given month (this may be subject to each manufacturer but I could find out from someone at the one I work at anyway, I know that Ford/Chev/Dodge do I just don't know the numbers or amount of extra kickback they give per whatever # sold).

Don't forget to, the higher the price on any car, especially for enthusiasts whether it be the Supra or anything else that the more these prices go up the less car people there will be as they will get to a point that not nearly as many people can afford it, at least in America anyway. The cost of living is riding dramatically but our paychecks aren't.

 

[DEupra]

One thing I did not mention as I didn't think to nor thought someone would comment with what you did which I don't mind at all; when I had read a while back about this possibly becoming a think because of the dealers and their mark ups the service and parts side of the dealership will never go away so direct to the manufacturer wouldn't ever really be a thing unless people were trying to get an update or what have you with an order.

As far as profit and as @Danimal mentioned, dealers already make a profit off of every vehicle sale even if sold at msrp. There is a holdback amount they automatically get at the time of sale on top of whatever the difference in price is between the MSRP and actual cost at the dealers expense to attain said vehicle. Some vehicle the cost and MSRP varies more than others but they're always making a fairly good profit from every vehicle sale without a single penny of ADM added onto that price. They also get bonuses if they hit a certain number of vehicles sold in any given month (this may be subject to each manufacturer but I could find out from someone at the one I work at anyway, I know that Ford/Chev/Dodge do I just don't know the numbers or amount of extra kickback they give per whatever # sold).

Don't forget to, the higher the price on any car, especially for enthusiasts whether it be the Supra or anything else that the more these prices go up the less car people there will be as they will get to a point that not nearly as many people can afford it, at least in America anyway. The cost of living is riding dramatically but our paychecks aren't.

I think at times a little too much of the blame goes on to the dealerships. I'm sure they would love to sell you the car at MSRP if they had 4/5 of them sitting on their lot. If Toyota continues to make "one too few" GR cars (as Toyota has been quoted to say in the past), then that's Toyota Corporate to blame for dealer ADMs and not the dealerships. In 2023, Toyota supply to the US market dropped by nearly 50% for the Supra, so who is to blame here?

 

[DEupra]

No, dealer markups are a coordinated effort to benefit off of limited supply while adding no extra benefit vs the profit they would already make from the car. They also control the supply, as laws in most states force sales through dealerships because of billions of dollars spent on lobbying. Controlling supply and coordinating on raising prices simply to benefit those in charge is the literal definition of a cartel. It’s illegal, yet somehow legal for dealerships, and is very very not free market captialism.

Dan

Is it the dealerships that limits supply or Toyota Corporate? Dealerships are independent of Toyota right? I understand we are forced to buy through dealerships, but wouldn't Toyota be pulling the strings on total supply/production?

 

[Danimal]

Is it the dealerships that limits supply or Toyota Corporate? Dealerships are independent of Toyota right? I understand we are forced to buy through dealerships, but wouldn't Toyota be pulling the strings on total supply/production?

Lots of factors can limit supply, but no I wasn’t saying (and didn’t say) that dealerships can directly limit supply.

Dan

 

[Schang105]

I think the popularity of leasing new vehicles has made prices kind of irrelevant for most of the buying public. Yes nobody likes the notion of paying more (for the same product), but leasing makes the "price" more of an abstract concern.

 

[DEupra]

It looks like there are multiple Nismo Z’s with a couple thousand discounted off MSRP. How does say a 63$k Nismo Z stack up against a 66$k 45th edition AT Supra? I would be tempted to go Nismo if I was interested in an automatic car.

 

[Syeeee]

It looks like there are multiple Nismo Z’s with a couple thousand discounted off MSRP. How does say a 63$k Nismo Z stack up against a 66$k 45th edition AT Supra? I would be tempted to go Nismo if I was interested in an automatic car.

Why?

The Supra is still faster and better than the Nismo. On all accounts.

https://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/sf91k94jhscu

So far.

 

[DEupra]

Why?

The Supra is still faster and better than the Nismo. On all accounts.

https://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/sf91k94jhscu

So far.

I like the Nismo seats lol. And even though slower around the track, the Nismo suspension bushings and other changes may make it feel more ‘sporty’ and ‘traditional’ (old school lol). I’m just thinking at what $ delta does the Nismo Z sound more tempting. Maybe 5$k less than the Supra or does the Nismo have to be -10$k less for someone cross shopping to even consider a Nismo over a Supra.

 

[J29DB03]

I like the Nismo seats lol. And even though slower around the track, the Nismo suspension bushings and other changes may make it feel more ‘sporty’ and ‘traditional’ (old school lol). I’m just thinking at what $ delta does the Nismo Z sound more tempting. Maybe 5$k less than the Supra or does the Nismo have to be -10$k less for someone cross shopping to even consider a Nismo over a Supra.

Simply put, Nissan would have to pay me to take a Z off their lot. And even then it would have to be a large enough number.

 

[nosavingthrow]

It looks like there are multiple Nismo Z’s with a couple thousand discounted off MSRP. How does say a 63$k Nismo Z stack up against a 66$k 45th edition AT Supra? I would be tempted to go Nismo if I was interested in an automatic car.

Arguably, you're paying an extra 8K on the Supra for very little in this case, just "limited edition" and a vinyl stripe and (according to most people) a sub-par spoiler.

The real cross shop here is 58K 3.0 Premium Supra vs 63K Nismo Z.

 

[DEupra]

Arguably, you're paying an extra 8K on the Supra for very little in this case, just "limited edition" and a vinyl stripe and (according to most people) a sub-par spoiler.

The real cross shop here is 58K 3.0 Premium Supra vs 63K Nismo Z.

I’m just trying to give the Z a fighting chance by throwing in the 45th anniversary edition lol and just to compare the “limited edition”. Nismo is more truly a special edition vs. the 45th but yeah overpriced compared to the Supra. I’d say the Nismo is worth MSRP if you’re a diehard Z fan who’s ok with retiring the 3rd pedal.

Premium 3.0 are now closer to 61$k for 2024 with the tech package and a few port options that usually are thrown on to the regional allocations. Typically I’m seeing 62$k minimum for premium 3.0 msrp before BS dealer add-ons and markup right now.

 

[alan7467]

I finally saw a new Z in person a couple weeks ago. I’m usually a fan of simple designs, but man did I not like this one. The exterior looks unfinished to my eye. I expected to at least like the rear end (I think it looks great in photos), but in person it looked like a cheap knockoff of a Z32.

All of this is to say nothing of the potential merits of this car. Some reviewers speak highly of the Nismo if you’re after a retro vibe with some decent engagement. I’d be interested to try one out, but couldn’t see myself owning one when the car looks like an unfinished prototype (IMO).

 

[Cptnslo]

It looks like there are multiple Nismo Z’s with a couple thousand discounted off MSRP. How does say a 63$k Nismo Z stack up against a 66$k 45th edition AT Supra? I would be tempted to go Nismo if I was interested in an automatic car.

Where? I haven’t checked in awhile

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