What wing do I run on my Supra?

[racebuild]

Occam's posted an interesting article comparing the NLR to a new offering from WingLogic in the A2 tunnel. Not going to add it to the spreadsheet since it's not a complete solution, but still an interesting read.

https://occamsracers.com/tag/wing-logic/

I have one sitting here as a back up foil. Will be testing it in a month or so.

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[i3igpete]

in the case of the supra, using the rear windshield angle (20 deg) and halving it to estimate the downwash angle is not too far off. obviously, the higher up you go, the closer it'll be to zero. but for most reasonable wing heights, it'll be in the 6-10 degree range. the gtc500 has the right amount of twist to cancel out the downwash along the car's centerline. the gtc300 has way too much twist for our cars, by the time the middle is getting going, the edges will be heavily stalled.

also, the goghen LED wing is actually not bad. they hired an aero guy to do a full-vehicle analysis. they report 136 kgf@180 km/h translates to 343 lbf @ 120mph.

Not bad. about on par with a Verus 63" ucx (365lb@120) or NLR 70" wang with a 1/2" gurney (349@120). verus reports their data the same way, the wing and body together can be figured out by taking stage 2 and stage 3 and calculating the difference.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Is no wing an an acceptable answer?

 

[FLtrackdays]

Is no wing an an acceptable answer?

Some peeps want it for looks. I‘m too old for that. Should I get one? Eventually…. Especially when adding more power (unlocking the ECU & turn) or high speeds in the rain on track. Luckily, I still have plenty of room for improvement with my current wangless setup ?

 

[i3igpete]

Is no wing an an acceptable answer?

yes, wingless is better than some Street Hunter thing

 

[Islindur]

verus reports their data the same way, the wing and body together can be figured out by taking stage 2 and stage 3 and calculating the difference.

Well, i guess better full body cfd than cfd for the wing alone in clean air with no car affecting it in front. I got Spage sp012 chart directly from spage (70" span, standard endplates) but its wing itself so i dont think we can assume it would make same numbers on the car/in wind tunnel?
So v1x from verus MAY actually be outperforming it, since verus mentioned ~2% difference between their cfd and wind tunel test?

 

[i3igpete]

i know the ucw was tested in the tunnel by itself, but i haven't looked at it super close to see how the their wing-only charts compare to the ventus stage deltas.

https://www.verus-engineering.com/blog/cfd-cases-4/verus-wind-tunnel-results-79

But i think we can generally assume 2d wings will do worse on a car. 3d wings may or may not actually do better on a car, if the twist angle matches the downdraft angle on the car.

sooo all that bring said, calibration and validation is a very inexact art for CFD. The DrivAer model, the open source benchmark for making sure your simulation is calibrated to show proper sensitivity for a range of conditions, was published with something like a 6-10% error compared to test data.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...w_Realistic_Generic_Car_Model_using_ANSYS_CFD

 

[Andrew4Supra]

Less is more?!? ?

 

[Islindur]

i know the ucw was tested in the tunnel by itself, but i haven't looked at it super close to see how the their wing-only charts compare to the ventus stage deltas.

https://www.verus-engineering.com/blog/cfd-cases-4/verus-wind-tunnel-results-79

But i think we can generally assume 2d wings will do worse on a car. 3d wings may or may not actually do better on a car, if the twist angle matches the downdraft angle on the car.

sooo all that bring said, calibration and validation is a very inexact art for CFD. The DrivAer model, the open source benchmark for making sure your simulation is calibrated to show proper sensitivity for a range of conditions, was published with something like a 6-10% error compared to test data.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...w_Realistic_Generic_Car_Model_using_ANSYS_CFD

Well, my question is pretty simple, I will need bigger wing when I move to AJH splitter so should go for V1X or Spage sp012, since they r similar price btw there is also gurney option for v1x, at 14° angle it gave around 2% more df.
Im not gona fabricate my own mounts and i dont like AJH ones so they r not an option for now.

 

[FLtrackdays]

i know the ucw was tested in the tunnel by itself, but i haven't looked at it super close to see how the their wing-only charts compare to the ventus stage deltas.

https://www.verus-engineering.com/blog/cfd-cases-4/verus-wind-tunnel-results-79

But i think we can generally assume 2d wings will do worse on a car. 3d wings may or may not actually do better on a car, if the twist angle matches the downdraft angle on the car.

sooo all that bring said, calibration and validation is a very inexact art for CFD. The DrivAer model, the open source benchmark for making sure your simulation is calibrated to show proper sensitivity for a range of conditions, was published with something like a 6-10% error compared to test data.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...w_Realistic_Generic_Car_Model_using_ANSYS_CFD

How much accuracy is lost in the wind tunnel using the Verus wing on a bulb & stick vs on the actual car when testing? Amount of downforce at various speeds. Just curious

 

[a90.faz]

Best wing on the market right now. Don’t @ me

 

[MoTeC_R]

If you wanna go hard like regular traffic:

 

[i3igpete]

Hopefully AJ and Al release the numbers soon, or at least some of the performance deltas. Lots of different combinations of splitter, splitter ramp, splitter side plate, splitter height, canard, hood louvers, wing angle and gurney combinations.

One thing I would have liked for him to touch on is the fact that the A2 tunnel doesn't have a moving floor*. While I understand that these are prohibitively expensive to run for hobbyist companies, he could at least comment on how it reduces overall aero efficiency, it does emphasize the performance Delta for things like canards and tire spats

* and even here there are two varieties, roller vs belt. The first one will improve the effect of canards and Fender vents, while the ladder will also improve the effect of splitter tunnels due to doubling the entrainment velocity** at very low splitter Heights

edit: he does touch upon it in this older video


**shout-out to my tribology homies

 

[Moonrobin]

yes, wingless is better than some Street Hunter thing

Previous owner of my car installed a street hunter wing. I'm curious to as if there's any quantitive data about it's effects. Is it actually hurting my lap times? Surely it provides some non-zero downforce.

 

[i3igpete]

take off the blade and take a picture of the end. we can probably eyeball it and see if it's similar to something in the NACA database.

https://occamsracers.com/2023/08/08/car-wings-examined/

It would be really sad if it made less downforce (CL of 1.7) than a two pieces of pipe cut and welded together (see the cambered plate section)

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