BMW model codes include Supra (J29) with auto transmission, 4 and 6 cylinder engines

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

what was wrong with scion? the first gen xb, tc & xa were all very commendable low budget cars & they successfully had by far the lowest average age of buyers until the recession hit. if the economy didn't go as sour as it did, scion would probably still be alive.

certainly a possibility but I'm still not convinced they'll kill off the GS. The other post you had in a previous thread was actually the next gen Toyota Crown which is basically a GS with Japanese clothing...so if they are serious about making another Crown which doesn't sell that many either then I think it is a good chance the GS stays.

Yeah the first gen tC and xB were great. I think another issue was the price got a little higher over time and the replacements for the tC and xB looked like

Yeah I was going to say the same. They just need to reskin the Crown.

http://www.supramkv.com/threads/no-hybrid-supra.616/

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[gymratter]

certainly a possibility but I'm still not convinced they'll kill off the GS. The other post you had in a previous thread was actually the next gen Toyota Crown which is basically a GS with Japanese clothing...so if they are serious about making another Crown which doesn't sell that many either then I think it is a good chance the GS stays.

the Crown actually does pretty good in China, not sure about other markets. i cant seem to find any data for that. the same logical can be said about the new LC. you would think Toyota would have just given y'all a shorten reskin LC with the Supra nameplate on it instead of a hardtop Z4 with a body kit. as far as the GS goes we'll just have to wait and see. i surely hope it will live on. i just LOL at the thought of a reskin Camry, oh I mean Avalon competing with the E class and 5 series.

 

[HKz]

the Crown actually does pretty good in China, not sure about other markets. i cant seem to find any data for that. the same logical can be said about the new LC. you would think Toyota would have just given y'all a shorten reskin LC with the Supra nameplate on it instead of a hardtop Z4 with a body kit. as far as the GS goes we'll just have to wait and see. i surely hope it will live on. i just LOL at the thought of a reskin Camry, oh I mean Avalon competing with the E class and 5 series.

yes, the crown does ok in japan & china, really the only two markets for it, but their pricing structure is quite different. base crowns are well below $40 K USD. even with the premium and despite sales dropping, lexus has still sold a reasonable amount of the gs in the us alone so i dont think it is doing that bad for a car near the end of its current generation.

toyota is moving their sedans upmarket. the new LS will probably see a good price hike which will leave a bigger gap between that and the IS, the camry's pricing got bumped up by a bit and you gotta figure the new avalon and ES will follow suit.

Yeah the first gen tC and xB were great. I think another issue was the price got a little higher over time and the replacements for the tC and xB looked like

Yeah I was going to say the same. They just need to reskin the Crown.

http://www.supramkv.com/threads/no-hybrid-supra.616/

I don't get why there are many folks that took issue with the 2nd gen tc & xb, I thought they too were very competent for the price and they reflected the updates a lot of folks wanted from the first gens. price hikes are pretty much unavoidable with increasing regulations & consumer expectations, on top of inflation..

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

I don't get why there are many folks that took issue with the 2nd gen tc & xb, I thought they too were very competent for the price and they reflected the updates a lot of folks wanted from the first gens. price hikes are pretty much unavoidable with increasing regulations & consumer expectations, on top of inflation..

Looks are subjective, personally the 2nd tC was ok. It wasn't fugly, but at the same time it wasn't good looking like the first gen. However, I never liked the xB replacement. Its just not me; back in the day at Toyota/Scion meets the xB owners I spoke to were disappointed about it's successor. I recall many of them complaining about it's looks and how much larger the new model got. IMO Kia did a better job at both pricing and styling with the Soul, and it shows with it's sales.

 

[HKz]

Looks are subjective, personally the 2nd tC was ok. It wasn't fugly, but at the same time it wasn't good looking like the first gen. However, I never liked the xB replacement. Its just not me; back in the day at Toyota/Scion meets the xB owners I spoke to were disappointed about it's successor. IMO Kia did a better job at both pricing and styling with the Soul, and it shows with it's sales.

too many factors are involved to use sales as evidence but indeed, first gen xb fans were upset because it wasnt a kei car anymore. to me it was surprising that the first gen did as well as it did in the us considering the stigma a lot of people have with boxy & small cars.. regardless, i dont think the 2nd gen was trying to pander to the same folks, it was probably trying to be even more broad in its appeal. the soul has been a great success for kia, but it is much more comparable to the 2nd gen than the 1st gen xb..not to mention it was released right after the brunt of the recession whereas the 2nd gen xb had to taste the worst of the market..

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

too many factors are involved to use sales as evidence but indeed, first gen xb fans were upset because it wasnt a kei car anymore. to me it was surprising that the first gen did as well as it did in the us considering the stigma a lot of people have with boxy & small cars.. regardless, i dont think the 2nd gen was trying to pander to the same folks, it was probably trying to be even more broad in its appeal. the soul has been a great success for kia, but it is much more comparable to the 2nd gen than the 1st gen xb..not to mention it was released right after the brunt of the recession whereas the 2nd gen xb had to taste the worst of the market..

Yes, but the Soul came to market one year after the recession. It's sales pretty much grew year after year while the xB kept tanking. I still think people didn't buy it because it was ugly

 

[vb22]

The Soul did good because of the hamsters

 

[vb22]

I'd like to point out that auto also applies to DCT which is an automated clutch even if manually operated.
That being said, If true the top model only has 300 HP for the price of a 650hp camaro zl1 that would be a hard pass. He'll used GTRs sit under 60k.

The spy videos do show a fart sound, so I'm hoping they will at least offer a DCT.

 

[johnny_10196]

I would rather have a good old manual, but if push comes to shove than a DCT will do. The new Z with the soft top is suppose to be cheaper than the outgoing $49k model. So I believe a $40-$45k base model Supra is reasonable, but it should have at least 300hp like the Cayman.

 

[jm6k]

So I read through the Bimmerpost thread and read an interesting comment by one of their members.



Personally, I'm taking everything with a hefty grain of salt right now until I see some cold, hard facts. Maybe I'm just an optimist, but I still have faith that Toyota knows what they're doing.

I don't trust any of the info out there either, I'm just hoping Toyota screws it up so I don't have to spend my money on one.

 

[HKz]

hard to see them going with the DCT especially if the current Z4 is using the ZF 8 speed and especially if they are reusing the same powertrains..this would also contradict BMW's comments and the industry moving away from DCTs. Also hard to see Toyota being ok with a DCT over a TC..

 

[Guff]

hard to see them going with the DCT especially if the current Z4 is using the ZF 8 speed and especially if they are reusing the same powertrains..this would also contradict BMW's comments and the industry moving away from DCTs. Also hard to see Toyota being ok with a DCT over a TC..

Def agree with that. That being said, am I in the minority of people who actually prefer a TC Auto (esp the ZF 8-Speed) to a DCT? Having driven both fairly extensively, the ZF 8-Speed is so damn fast (when manufacturer-tuned correctly), that it really serves all but the most hardcore of track drivers, and it's sooooo smooth on the street when you want to just take it easy. Plus, trans maintenance on DCTs is so damn expensive. My brother's Quadrifoglio is seriously one of the best all around auto transmissions I've ever had the pleasure of driving and the BMW DCT's I've driven (E92 M3) have been fairly meh on the street.

Plus, as HKz said, it really seems unlikely Toyota would go for a DCT option, they use TC autos in everything.

Oh yeah, also, BMW makes absolutely terrible feeling manuals (barring the E39 M5). I absolutely hate that rubbery, fake feeling. But that's what bushings and shifter kits are for, I guess...

 

[jm6k]

Oh yeah, also, BMW makes absolutely terrible feeling manuals (barring the E39 M5). I absolutely hate that rubbery, fake feeling. But that's what bushings and shifter kits are for, I guess...

I've had two manual BMW's and driven several others and cannot even begin to understand how "the ultimate driving machine" has a clutch and shifter feel the way that they do. I thought maybe I just didn't get it, or don't understand how it would feel on a track, or for whatever reason I was wrong, but it's just never impressed me. VERY smooth, but doesn't inspire excitement.

That said, I've had two BMW's with automatics as well. One was a 7-series on a short lease, the other was an E60 545i that I bought with ~70k and had the transmission replaced by the previous owner at 55k. I sold it at 95k and the next owner needed a new transmission at 103k.

Basically, I'm really hoping for Toyota components in this thing.

 

[Guff]

I've had two manual BMW's and driven several others and cannot even begin to understand how "the ultimate driving machine" has a clutch and shifter feel the way that they do. I thought maybe I just didn't get it, or don't understand how it would feel on a track, or for whatever reason I was wrong, but it's just never impressed me. VERY smooth, but doesn't inspire excitement.

That said, I've had two BMW's with automatics as well. One was a 7-series on a short lease, the other was an E60 545i that I bought with ~70k and had the transmission replaced by the previous owner at 55k. I sold it at 95k and the next owner needed a new transmission at 103k.

Basically, I'm really hoping for Toyota components in this thing.

My sentiments exactly! I always thought, "Maybe I'm missing something" or "I guess I just need to drive it more", but that was never the case. BMW makes really terrible manuals, and that's all. Journalists gush and gush about the E46 M3, so I thought it had to be game-changing, but it was just an okay chassis (hello rear subframe), with a decent (but terrible-sounding) engine, and an absolutely garbage manual transmission that effectively ruined any chances of the car being a cohesive driver's car.

God, my BMW hate is starting to come out... I've been repressing it fairly effectively for a while, but it's just too hard to hold back.

Anyways, I'm not exactly sure what the longevity situation is like on the ZF 8-Speeds, so that's something to think about. But either way, it's very doubtful that Toyota is going to have a hand in making the transmission, so all we can do is just hope for the best.

 

[mas921]

Had to register for this; The list in the OP is inconclusive at best:

1- In the BMW forums, members there have pointed out some model combinations listed in that DB extraction that does NOT exist in the market. Indicating how accurate this list is.
2- There are nearly 2x variations of G29 vs J29...what gives?
3- It doesn't list GCC, Japanese or Australian Markets variations, again incomplete list.
4- Toyota Hired a specialist just to nail down the "feel" of the manual shifts in the ZN6/ZC6, they know how important a proper manual is, in such cars.
5- The Z5 spy shots does show a manual car. Developing the shared chassis to include a manual is paid for then! (Inverse of this case: I recall an SRT engineer in an interview explaining why the Charger doesn't come with a stick shift because, unlike a challenger, the charger chassis floor was not developed with the manual in mind)
6- That list was last updated 6 months ago! around that time, IIRC, the mk5 supra was rumored as an AWD hybrid .... LOL

With the backlash from the 911 GT3's PDK only option, i think Toyota knows how vocal the community can be. Porsche now offers a manual in the GT3RS. I certainly do believe that the Z5/supra twins have larger market than GT3 or GT3RS models.
Heck even 'Hyundai' knows how important a manual is for enthusiasts, they released their i30N hothatch as manual only (and it sold so good, that it sold out in just 48 hours in Germany); my point is that there IS still a valid business case for manual sports cars.



TL;DR : this list is in no position to deny that the mk5 Supra will ever come with a manual.

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